AVERAGE Range on a Full Charge

[Hybridbear]

I'm noting a slight hit, will pass 44k miles today... but don't know if a different set of tires is a factor.  I have a spreadsheet with logged MPG of the commutes back and forth to work, am going to compare from last May to this may once the weather warms up and the good MPG trips can be achieved again - just not sure if I can get the great MPG trips like I did.  The reason that think that a hit to the battery may be a factor is that during the best MPG times last year the MFM trip & charge history would always show around 5.5-5.7kWh and now the max normally shows 4.8-5.0kWh. with 5.1kWh the most I've seen in the past couple months.  But then again, the colder weather may be a factor, so waiting for the warmer weather to compare under optimal conditions.

Battery temp plays a big part. With the HVB temp in the 70s I usually see 7.1-7.15 kWh as my ETE when starting out fully charged. When the HVB temp is in the 30s it only holds about 6.1-6.2 kWh. On our road trip we had one day that started out with only 5.9 kWh in the HVB because it's temp was down around 15 F.

[garymkrieg]

Speaking of battery temperature on the opposite end of the thermometer.  Yesterday, in Las Vegas, my car outside temperature gauge was reading 103.   The car had been outside sitting in the sun for an hour or so.  What I noticed during my drive home, in EV mode, was that the blue threshold box on the Empower screen was much smaller. I actually had the engine come on twice during my usual acceleration pace. That pace has never caused in the engine to be engaged in the past.

 

Gary

[rbort]

^^^  Baking in the sun, a bad thing...try to leave the windows cracked or park in the shade if at all possible.

 

-=>Raja.

[howardbc]

Here in Arizona, the engine always comes on when it gets above a certain temperature. I only have 12k+ miles on my 2013 FFE, but so far the heat has not done any serious damage. To be honest, I haven't paid attention to kwh. I just note my LIfetime MPG. 101-102MPG with brake score of 92. 

 

The car survived an uphill climb on a 122-degree day, so hopefully it will continue to be a great car. I did install those WeatherTech side window wind deflectors so I can crack the windows when parking away from home. 

 

At home I am fortunate to have a garage so I just let it sit and cool off after extreme outside temps. Then I just plug it into a 110/120v wall outlet every night after 9PM. So far, so good! 

[Hybridbear]

Here in Arizona, the engine always comes on when it gets above a certain temperature. I only have 12k+ miles on my 2013 FFE, but so far the heat has not done any serious damage. To be honest, I haven't paid attention to kwh. I just note my LIfetime MPG. 101-102MPG with brake score of 92. 

 

The car survived an uphill climb on a 122-degree day, so hopefully it will continue to be a great car. I did install those WeatherTech side window wind deflectors so I can crack the windows when parking away from home. 

 

At home I am fortunate to have a garage so I just let it sit and cool off after extreme outside temps. Then I just plug it into a 110/120v wall outlet every night after 9PM. So far, so good!

 

You should plug it in immediately so that the fans can cool the HVB. Use a Value Charge profile to delay charging until the early morning hours. This will ensure that your HVB is as cool as possible. Leaving the car unplugged with a hot HVB is worse than plugging it in to let the fans run.

[howardbc]

Interesting. You're correct of course that the fans would come on to cool a hot battery but isn't the charging also adding to the heat on the batteries? I wonder if a floor fan aimed at the battery area might help. 

 

Thanks.

[rbort]

I heard conflicting info on this:

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/2882-poll-what-is-your-battery-capacity/page-7

 

Specifically, read this:

 

 

 

Charging does raise the HVB temperature so the fan that runs while charging may help limit temperature rise but it will not lower the temperature. My plan is to not charge a hot HVB if I am able to allow natural cooling. I don't set charge times since that uses power while waiting for the time to charge the battery. I also don't have off peak rate differential pricing for my power so there is no cost advantage to delay the charging. I plan on just plugging in after the battery either before going to bed or first thing the following morning.

 

I usually let my battery rest if I can and charge it at the end of the night if I need it by the AM instead of right away when getting home.

 

Hybridbear thinks its better but Tom says its not.  The difference could be in setting value charging which Tom doesn't do.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited May 31, 2015 at 05:55 PM by rbort

[Hybridbear]

Interesting. You're correct of course that the fans would come on to cool a hot battery but isn't the charging also adding to the heat on the batteries? I wonder if a floor fan aimed at the battery area might help. 

 

Thanks.

That's why you may want to set a Value Charge profile to prevent charging. Then the car will just cool the HVB when first plugged in and will wait to start charging until later. That should yield the best result.

 

The biggest advantage to this is that you don't have to worry about plugging in the car other than when you get home. Apparently Raja & Tom like running out the garage all the time to plug in & unplug their car. I'd rather just plug in when I come home and let the car cool the HVB as it sees fit and using a Value Charge profile I delay charging until 3 am.

[larryh]

Charging the HVB does not necessarily warm it up.  I have charged the HVB and the temperature has cooled down with the fans running.  It takes a very long time for the HVB to cool down.  Overnight, without a fan, it might cool down about 7 or 8 degrees.   I will have to monitor what happens more closely to provide more accurate data. 

[rbort]

Bear,

 

The reason I don't plug my car in even with value charging is that I don't always want it charged by the next morning.  Sometimes I don't need it and I just plug it in to charge it when I need it or to raise the charge level to about 60% and unplug it for safe keeping until I need it.

 

Your method would mean my battery is always full by the AM, and I don't have a day job to go to daily so my needs for the car are not set by any work schedule.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited May 31, 2015 at 08:27 PM by rbort

[Hybridbear]

Bear,

 

The reason I don't plug my car in even with value charging is that I don't always want it charged by the next morning.  Sometimes I don't need it and I just plug it in to charge it when I need it or to raise the charge level to about 60% and unplug it for safe keeping until I need it.

 

Your method would mean my battery is always full by the AM, and I don't have a day job to go to daily so my needs for the car are not set by any work schedule.

 

-=>Raja.

You could still accomplish what you're trying to do with Value Charging. Just set it so that the charge doesn't begin until whatever time you get up in the morning. Then you could still stop it charging whenever you feel like stopping it but then since the car would be plugged in overnight the HVB fans would be able to run and keep your HVB cooler. You would then do your charging in the morning instead of at night.

[howardbc]

Hybridbear, your advice sounds good but I'm afraid I haven't yet gotten up the courage to try the Value Charging. Or rather, I tried it once and it didn't seem to work. I may look at the manual and try it again.

 

I now have solar panels that take care of my electric bills for most of the year. Last year I only got high-ish bills during the 3 hottest Summer months here, but then I found out that one of my 2 a/c units wasn't working properly. That was fixed so I am anxious to see how my bills are this Summer. 

 

Thanks.

[rbort]

Yeah I tried to fiddle with value charging over a year ago and I don't think it worked 100% for me either but I didn't need it at the time so I didn't mess with it too much.  Its a good idea Bear I will play with it and see if it works.  I think I need to program it from MFM correct?  MFM used to mess up in the past with this.

 

Solar is awesome, glad you got it Mrs. bc, I love mine no electric cost since August of 2013!

 

-=>Raja.

[howardbc]

Thanks, Raja. Let us know how the Value Charging works for you if you try it again. 

 

Yes, solar is awesome! My last 2 electric bills were $9.30. That must be the minimum base charge. I keep one of those Waka Wakas in my car, facing the windshield, and it is great for charging my phone when I'm out. 

 

Right now I'm following the Solar Impulse - that's the entirely solar airplane trying to fly around the world. Right now they're flying from China to Hawaii. It will take 5-6 days. 'Hope they make it okay because there's no place for the pilot to land in-between!

[rbort]

Bear,

 

Here is a question for you, how do you delete a value charge profile?  Playing with this now.  I have default, I have "overnight cooling" which I just made, and I have "home".  Apparently home and overnight cooling are for the same spot (home) so I need to delete one of them...

 

-=>Raja.

Edited May 31, 2015 at 09:07 PM by rbort

[larryh]

Charging the HVB does not necessarily warm it up.  I have charged the HVB and the temperature has cooled down with the fans running.  It takes a very long time for the HVB to cool down.  Overnight, without a fan, it might cool down about 7 or 8 degrees.   I will have to monitor what happens more closely to provide more accurate data. 

 

I plugged the car into the 240 V charger this afternoon after my commute home.  Value charge is enabled.  The car immediately charged the HVB until the SOC reached 32.5%.  The HVB temperature fell while charging from 95 F to 93 F.  So running the fans while charging can cool the battery down.  I will see tomorrow morning what the temperature is with the fans running all night while waiting for the charge time. 

Edited June 1, 2015 at 12:30 AM by larryh

[rbort]

Are the fans running all night or did they stop running after the car stopped charging at 32.5% SOC?  And isn't that supposed to be 22.5%?  I thought the car only charged the hybrid portion right away and waited on the rest of the battery until value charge hours.

 

Also, what if you didn't charge it right away and let it sit, would the temp still be at 95 now or would it have dropped to 94 or 93 anyways?

 

-=>Raja.

Edited June 1, 2015 at 01:08 AM by rbort

[rbort]

So I went downstairs and plugged my car in (I'm at the hotel).  The 120v stock charger is flashing, I powered on and selected value charge, the car says "waiting to charge".

 

I came back upstairs, packed up some things and went downstairs to put them in the car.  I noticed the fan running, ok, that's good I suppose.  I powered up the center screen and the car still says waiting to charge, but the 120v charger is still flashing, AND, I noticed that the charge level on the HVB incremented from 20 to 21% while I was looking at the screen...

 

But WAIT, when I got back to the hotel I had 17% left in the HVB and 4 miles range showing since I drove on the highway at 55mph for a few miles.  Now MFM shows 6 miles range, and its still "waiting to charge".  

 

So, is it waiting to charge or isn't it?  Why is it charging the hybrid battery is untouched was full I have not used the engine since Wednesday and I still have 17% HVB when I got back to the hotel tonight.  What gives?

 

Is it going to stop at 32%?

 

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

Update:

 

Something is screwed up in my profiles, not working correctly.  The car says waiting to charge but says will charge from 9:20pm to 4:57am, but its 9:40pm now.  One screen says waiting, another screen shows charge is going up.  I need to figure out how to delete the profiles and start over, has anyone figured that out?

 

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

Nevermind I figured it out, its under saved locations.

 

-=>Raja.

[Hybridbear]

Nevermind I figured it out, its under saved locations.

 

-=>Raja.

Glad you figured it out. I'd avoid changing the "default" to value charge. It doesn't seem to work if you do that. When I charge at a new location I plug in the car and let it start charging under "default" for a little bit. Then I log in to MFM on the computer to save the charge location. Then I can create a value charge profile for that kocation which then causes the charging to stop once the profiles sync. Edited June 1, 2015 at 02:28 AM by Hybridbear

[Hybridbear]

I've never noticed any change in SOC when plugging in. Even when I come home & am in hybrid mode I don't see any change in MFM. My parents drove beyond the EV range today and their C-Max shows 0% and plugged in waiting to charge. Can you see a change in MFM when the car does this immediate charging?

[rbort]

Thanks Bear, yeah I just figured that out was going to write it for the Mrs. but good you got it done :)

 

Its charging now, I just did that (created a new one at the saved location of Flatrock, MI) and I said from 10pm onwards, synced at 9:55pm it didn't start right at 10pm but around 10:05 it kicked in and started charging.

 

Wanted to make sure its going to go as I am leaving tomorrow and don't want to wake up to a dead battery.

 

Thanks for the tip, I learned something new :)  I'll have to create a value charge for home, from what I figure I'd have to wait until the car is actually there to do it.  I'll make one for Larry's house tomorrow night as well in PA.

 

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

Bear, mine was charging when it said it was waiting but I believe that was due to screwed up charging profiles.  In your question above, I believe you're talking to Larry.

 

-=>Raja.

[larryh]

Are the fans running all night or did they stop running after the car stopped charging at 32.5% SOC?  And isn't that supposed to be 22.5%?  I thought the car only charged the hybrid portion right away and waited on the rest of the battery until value charge hours.

 

Also, what if you didn't charge it right away and let it sit, would the temp still be at 95 now or would it have dropped to 94 or 93 anyways?

 

-=>Raja.

The fans runs at low speed all night.    This morning the HVB temperature fell from 93 to 79 F.  Charging warmed it back up to 84 F.  The garage temperature was 72 F. 

 

I suspect that it is not good to leave the HVB at a low SOC.  Value Charging makes it a priority to provide a minimal amount of SOC to the HVB immediately after plugging in, regardless of how expensive electricity is at the moment according to the value charge profile.    It normally charges beyond the hybrid portion of the HVB before stopping.  I see 3 to 4 miles of range.  The displayed SOC was 15% when it stopped.

 

 

I've never noticed any change in SOC when plugging in. Even when I come home & am in hybrid mode I don't see any change in MFM. My parents drove beyond the EV range today and their C-Max shows 0% and plugged in waiting to charge. Can you see a change in MFM when the car does this immediate charging?

 

I don't know the SOC threshold which causes the car to start charging the HVB immediately when plugging in under value charge. It only charges immediately when the HVB is sufficiently depleted.  MFM will show the car is charging when it does this, but the time to complete charging is the next day.

Edited June 1, 2015 at 10:00 AM by larryh