AdvanceTrac

[Gigi]

Tuesday afternoon, as my wife was creeping home in the Atlanta Snow Jam 2014, the Stability Control and the Check Engine light came on and remained on.  She got a message, "Service AdvanceTrac See Manual," and another that said "Hill Assist Not Available."  It seemed as if when she took her foot off the brake, the car would begin to accelerate.  Needless to say, with snow falling, cars upside down along the roadside, and drivers struggling to make progress on sheets of solid ice, this was stressful for her.  When she called, I told her to pull off the road, turn off the car, and see if the system would reset itself.  It did on the second try; however, the check engine light remained on.

 

Yesterday, I walked to retrieve the car from a mile and a half away and to move it closer to our neighborhood.  The Check Engine light was still on, but the traction control seemed to be working okay.  Today, I was able to drive the car to a store and then all the way home.  By the time I got home, the Check Engine light had gone off.

 

I put in a call to the local service department, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.  I suppose they have their hands full.

 

Anybody have any experience with this?

[larryh]

By check engine light, I assume you mean the service engine soon light?  That comes on quite frequently for me for various reasons (fuel door is open or a known engine block heater issue) but does not stay on for more than 3 driving cycles.  According to Ashley:

 

If you check out p. 154 of the third printing of your owner's manual, it explains the Service Engine Soon light. As long as the light goes off within 3 driving cycles, there's no need to bring it in. If it stays on longer than that, I recommend swinging by your dealer.

 

I have seen mysterious notifications displayed such as "Blindspot System Malfunction" and "Cross Traffic System Fault".  The BLIS or Cross Traffic Alert systems are disabled.  However, when I turn off the car and turn it back on, everything is normal.  This happens only when it is below zero so far.  I suspect there is some sort of communication error between the various systems of the car that is not being handled properly or another software bug.  You apparently have to "reboot" the entire car to fix these.  Hopefully, an important system does not go off line when driving in rush hour traffic.

 

I use an OBD II scanner to look at the DTCs when the Service Engine Soon light is illuminated.  I noticed an error the other day that indicated a communication fault.  I noted the fault after trying to dislodge the car from the snow that drifted around the car.  Ford refuses to support assisting customers with DTCs.

Edited January 30, 2014 at 09:25 PM by larryh

[Gigi]

3 driving cycles is what it took to get the "Service Engine Soon" light to go out.  With as much electronics as this thing has, I expect that there are bound to be communication faults between various systems from time to time.

 

The strange behavior of the car accelerating when my wife took her foot off the brake is concerning.  And no, she did not have the cruise control on.  Responding to stop and go traffic on ice going uphill is bound to be a challenge for an automated system.  I imagine that the program may have gotten overloaded with data and if the cold and ice took out a sensor or two, that could only make matters worse.

 

Strange that a service department wouldn't want to know about the DTCs you read.

[larryh]

Strange that a service department wouldn't want to know about the DTCs you read.

I am referring to Ford Service for this forum.  I would have to go to my dealer and have them scan the DTCs.  But by then, they will probably have been deleted.  If the light doesn't stay on, they are probably not all that important. 

 

Note that it doesn't always take three driving cycles for the service engine soon light to turn off. 

Edited January 30, 2014 at 09:29 PM by larryh

[Russael]

3 driving cycles is what it took to get the "Service Engine Soon" light to go out.  With as much electronics as this thing has, I expect that there are bound to be communication faults between various systems from time to time.

 

The strange behavior of the car accelerating when my wife took her foot off the brake is concerning.  And no, she did not have the cruise control on.  Responding to stop and go traffic on ice going uphill is bound to be a challenge for an automated system.  I imagine that the program may have gotten overloaded with data and if the cold and ice took out a sensor or two, that could only make matters worse.

 

Strange that a service department wouldn't want to know about the DTCs you read.

 

I'm curious about this accelerating thing you mention.  The car DOES creep forward or backwards when your foot is off the brake and it is in gear to simulate every other traditional gasoline car, but if you're accelerating as if you're pushing the gas pedal when you're not, that is strange.

[larryh]

On Saturday, snow had drifted around my car and I had a hard time getting out.  I remember some notification or other popping up, but I didn't catch what it was.  I'm not sure, but I don't think the car was working quite right.  It is very hard to tell what is going on when the engine is not running.  I can't tell if the wheels are doing anything.  Anyway, I turned the car off and back on again and eventually managed to dislodge the car from the snow.  That is when it noticed the communication fault DTC. 

Edited January 30, 2014 at 09:50 PM by larryh

[Gigi]

. . . if you're accelerating as if you're pushing the gas pedal when you're not, that is strange.

It frightened my wife and that's not a good thing in the midst of 5 and a half hours stuck in snow and ice gridlock.

[ptek]

Tuesday afternoon, as my wife was creeping home in the Atlanta Snow Jam 2014, the Stability Control and the Check Engine light came on and remained on.  She got a message, "Service AdvanceTrac See Manual," and another that said "Hill Assist Not Available."  It seemed as if when she took her foot off the brake, the car would begin to accelerate.

 

You have an Energi, and I'm looking at my hybrid owner's manual, but what you're describing sounds like "limp home mode".

 

Under the Powertrain Fault section of the hybrid manual:

Note: If your vehicle detects certain faults, it will not allow you to operate the accelerator pedal. If this happens, press the brake pedal and release it. This will activate limp home vehicle operation. In limp home vehicle operation, your vehicle will accelerate in a controlled manner up to a maximum speed of 35 mph (56 km/h) on a flat surface. If you apply the brake pedal or move the transmission to neutral (N) you can override your vehicle’s acceleration.

 

Maybe look and see if the Energi has a similar mode?

 

- Pete

[Fat Fusion]

Read up on my exact same issue here.  Bottom line is you need to get the software updated that controls the transmission.  

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1389-service-advancetrack-dead-accel-pedal-no-cruise/

[Gigi]

You have an Energi, and I'm looking at my hybrid owner's manual, but what you're describing sounds like "limp home mode".

 

. . .

 

Maybe look and see if the Energi has a similar mode?

 

- Pete

Hmmm.  The manual doesn't mention "limp home mode."  What year hybrid do you have? 

 

Googling limp home mode, I found this about the NHTSA response to customer complaints: http://www.newsomelaw.com/blog/2013/02/26/nhtsa-announces-investigation-estimated-724982-ford-vehicles-after-more-1400-%E2%80%98limp-m

 

Reading this description to my wife, she confirms that this does seem to be what was happening.

 

She was able to get off the road safely after about an hour of this behavior, stop, and get the system rebooted.  I wonder what was the cause.  If there is a problem, I'd like the service department to find it and fix it.

[Gigi]

Read up on my exact same issue here.  Bottom line is you need to get the software updated that controls the transmission.  

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1389-service-advancetrack-dead-accel-pedal-no-cruise/

Thanks.

[larryh]

So because of the slippery road conditions, the tires could not get enough traction to accelerate the car normally.  After this happens for a while, the car gets confused and declares that the accelerator sensor is not working properly.  It then decides to ignore the accelerator and provide constant steady power to the wheels for you instead.  Then you are supposed to control the speed using the brake pedal instead?  I wonder if that was what happened when I was trying to dislodge my car from the snow.  That certainly isn't very useful "feature" if you are stuck in the snow.  They need to warn you that this is happening.  Otherwise, people may panic, especially when it is slippery, and cause accidents. 

Edited January 31, 2014 at 12:02 PM by larryh

[larryh]

You have an Energi, and I'm looking at my hybrid owner's manual, but what you're describing sounds like "limp home mode".

 

Under the Powertrain Fault section of the hybrid manual:

Note: If your vehicle detects certain faults, it will not allow you to operate the accelerator pedal. If this happens, press the brake pedal and release it. This will activate limp home vehicle operation. In limp home vehicle operation, your vehicle will accelerate in a controlled manner up to a maximum speed of 35 mph (56 km/h) on a flat surface. If you apply the brake pedal or move the transmission to neutral (N) you can override your vehicle’s acceleration.

 

Maybe look and see if the Energi has a similar mode?

 

- Pete

 

This is only in the 2014 owners manual.  It is not in the 2013 owners manual.  So is this a new feature for 2014, or do 2013's also have it?

Edited January 31, 2014 at 12:08 PM by larryh

[SteveEnergi]

If you're "stuck in snow", the manual says to "turn off" the traction control.  On the ice, I'd leave it alone. 

Consider driving in "L" when in snow/ice as you do not need to use the break as often, therefore avoiding the ABS system from kicking in.  "L" slows you down quite nicely.

 

In certain situations (e.g. stuck in snow or

mud), turning the traction control off may

be beneficial as this allows the wheels to

spin with full engine power. Turn off the

traction control system through the

information display. See General

Information (page 84).

[larryh]

If you're "stuck in snow", the manual says to "turn off" the traction control.  On the ice, I'd leave it alone. 

Consider driving in "L" when in snow/ice as you do not need to use the break as often, therefore avoiding the ABS system from kicking in.  "L" slows you down quite nicely.

 

In certain situations (e.g. stuck in snow or

mud), turning the traction control off may

be beneficial as this allows the wheels to

spin with full engine power. Turn off the

traction control system through the

information display. See General

Information (page 84).

 

I did turn traction control off.  That didn't help much.  Later, while I was rocking back and forth, I got some notification that I missed on the information display.  I couldn't tell what the wheels were doing--I wasn't moving and the car doesn't make much noise.  The snow was too deep.  I had to get out and shovel.  So I turned the car off and on.  That seems to have re-enabled traction control.  I then was then able to get out. 

Edited January 31, 2014 at 12:59 PM by larryh

[SteveEnergi]

I haven't had to mess with disabling that feature.  The most snow that I've had the FFE in is a measly 2 inches and the car surprisingly performed well.  It's nice and heavy thanks to the battery in the back.  It just takes a little longer to slow the vehicle, but "L" works great for slowing this car.

 

When it really snows, I just take my Surburban out.  It's old and has a number of dents in it, so I'd rather scratch that vehicle than my FFE.  It also has an outstanding FWD system.

[larryh]

The snow drift I was stuck in was about 1 foot deep.  The tires on the car don't do well in deep snow.  When there is more than five inches of snow on my driveway, I have a lot of difficulty geting up my driveway (its a typical driveway with a slight incline up to the garage).  I have to make several attempts trying to get up to speed before entering the driveway.  But I also had difficulty with previous cars that did not have snow tires, but not as much.  The traction control seems to work well on icy roads.  I have very little difficulty accelerating away from stop lights, whereas in previous car, the wheels would spin quite a bit.  Snow tires would do a much better job on snowy and ice roads than the all season tires that came with the car.  See the following video:

 

Edited January 31, 2014 at 01:52 PM by larryh

[Gigi]

If your vehicle begins to slide, the system

applies the brakes to individual wheels
and, when needed, reduces engine power
at the same time. If the wheels spin when
accelerating on slippery or loose surfaces,
the system reduces engine power in order
to increase traction. (manual, p. 170)

 

My F-150 has a limited slip differential that keeps one or the other of the drive wheels from spinning and maintains power to the wheel that has the best traction.  This works really well.

 

It sounds like the traction control system in the Fusion relies on individual wheel brakes to stop wheel spin rather than a limited slip differential and that somehow it reduces engine power when it detects wheel spin.  My wife said that at times it seemed as if the engine speed was increasing all on its own.  Perhaps she wasn't noticing when the engine power was reduced by the TCS and was instead noticing the power return to normal.

[Gigi]

Great video, Larryh.

 

When I was a kid, my parents had an extra set of wheels for both cars mounted with snow tires that stayed in the basement until needed.  The last time this happened (2011) I was thinking of getting a couple of extra wheels for my truck and a pair of snow tires.  This week, I ordered a set of these for each car in the household to put in the trunk for when we get another severe winter weather alert.  I hope I never have to use them.

 

http://amzn.com/B000VAFN60

Edited January 31, 2014 at 02:10 PM by Gigi

[murphy]

One thing you have to unlearn with the FFE (and FFH) is that engine speed does not correlate with vehicle speed.  The engine can be sped up to generate more electricity without affecting vehicle speed. 

 

This is a "fly-by-wire" vehicle.  There is no connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine.  The accelerator pedal contains two potentiometers or rheostats if you prefer.  There are three terminals on each potentiometer.  All six terminals are connected to the car's computer via a six wire cable.  This redundant system tells the computer how far the pedal has been pushed.  The engine throttle is under control of the computer.  The driver has no direct control of the engine.

[FordService]

Tuesday afternoon, as my wife was creeping home in the Atlanta Snow Jam 2014, the Stability Control and the Check Engine light came on and remained on.  She got a message, "Service AdvanceTrac See Manual," and another that said "Hill Assist Not Available."  It seemed as if when she took her foot off the brake, the car would begin to accelerate.  Needless to say, with snow falling, cars upside down along the roadside, and drivers struggling to make progress on sheets of solid ice, this was stressful for her.  When she called, I told her to pull off the road, turn off the car, and see if the system would reset itself.  It did on the second try; however, the check engine light remained on. ...

Gigi,

 

Let me take a look at this. PM me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. 

 

Ashley

[ptek]

Hmmm.  The manual doesn't mention "limp home mode."  What year hybrid do you have? 

 

As larryh figured out, I pulled that info from the 2014 hybrid manual.  - Pete

[Gigi]

I was finally able to get "Gigi" into the dealer today.  As Fat Fusion predicted, they reprogrammed the PCM, BECM, and SOBDM-C modules as per TSB 14-0020.

 

All is well.

[fusionowner]

I wanted to chime in on this post.  It's the only one I've been able to find online that exactly describes what I experienced.  I've been dealing with this exact same issue since Dec 5th of 2013 and ~8,000 miles on the odometer.

 

However, I live in CA so cold, snow/ice and traction control can't be the cause.

 

Summary of my problem:

When braking in EV / Auto mode the car entered "LIMP MODE"

The dash lights up  with the wrench (solid), CEL, Adv trac, Stability Trac, and dialogue box that rotates between three messages (See Manual, Service AdvancTrac, and Hill Assist not available).

 

LIMP Mode deactivates the Accelerator and cruise control like you mentioned.

 

The scary thing is this has happened to me 3 times over the course of 6000 miles.  Each time my dealer "fixed" the issue.  Once via the October software update and once by replacing the PCM.

 

Has anyone else experienced LIMP mode?  I'm trying to figure out the cause.  At this point my Fusion is unsafe to drive.  Ford Corporate is even looking into the case, though my dealer is an absolute joke and has all but ignored me.

 

I'll cross my fingers yours was a one time thing and that you don't end up like me with an ongoing safety concern.  I'm truly hoping I just got a LEMON and that other folks' fusions are fine.
 

If folks are interested in more detail about what happened PM me or check out my blog where I'm documenting the ongoing saga.

 

Thanks!

Edited March 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM by fusionowner

[Gigi]

Wow, fusionowner, sorry that you're having to drive around worrying about when this is going to happen again.

 

So far, this has been a one-time incident with our car.  It hasn't happened since the "snowjam" on January 28th. 

 

Unless I missed it, there is not a good description of limp mode in the owner's manual.  That would have been helpful for understanding what was happening.

 

I have a similar issue with my F-150.  From time to time, I'll take my foot off the accelerator and it will go into Engine Failsafe mode, a limp mode.  This doesn't bother me since I've gotten accustomed to it, having happened at least a half dozen times.  Problem is that I forget to tell people who borrow the truck and I don't like the idea of it happening if my wife should be driving it. 

 

Since we've gotten rid of mechanical throttle linkage, carburetors, distributors, and points and have gone to drive by wire and computer systems, cars have gotten so complicated with so many sensors and activators that it's hard to keep everything connected and functioning.