Replacing Sony speaker question

[ls1ssws6]

Just curious if anyone else seems to feel that the Sony system is a little "quiet" for lack of better terms. I came from an Infinity stock system in my Kia Optima which I LOVED. It seems that it over powers the Sony in highs, lows and mids. I seem to have to turn the Sony up considerably higher to get a decent sound. I saw a post on here with the guy who switched to Polk speakers. I want to switch to something else but 1, I am kinda nervous to pull apart the doors in a brand new car and start tinkering (have done it in other used cars but nothing brand new) , 2 I want to make sure I get something that is going to give me crisp highs and nice mids and lows without breaking the bank, and 3 I want something that is going to be plug and play and don't have to do any modifications to the existing housings.

 

So if anyone has suggestions on what brands they would go with and if there are any step by steps on how to remove the door panels without breaking clips or cracking panels. Also if it helps I mainly listen to hip hop, rap and clubby techno music.

 

Thanks in advance guys

Edited July 19, 2014 at 02:37 AM by ls1ssws6

[meyersnole]

What speakers sounds good is different for many people. Are you looking for accurate reproduction of sound? (The Sony system does not, but I think it sounds better than a lot of other systems.)  Are you looking for more volume, sound pressure -- big bass? What kind of music do you listen to?

 

For accurate reproduction, Focal & Infinity would be near the top of my list... I have not heard Polk for car speakers, but I have them at home and they are great... tend to be a little more mid and bass. Good choice for classic rock. You will get more value out of some of the Infinity line or Polk though.

 

If you want something that will move some air -- hard rock, hip hop, metal, etc, then I think that Rockford Fosgate can be a solid choice, it will also take a lot more abuse than the speakers above. Would not want to listen to piano or classical on them though. AC/DC or Tool sounds amazing on them though.

 

The thing that would give me pause with spending for the Focal would be is the amp clean enough and powerful enough for them. If the amp does not have a clean signal, they will sound bad. My last setup had JL Audio amps (~800 watts) with Focal drivers and a JL Audio 10 sub. Sounded amazing -- and I will never do it again. As the system aged the heat gave me issues with the digital signal processor... one of my amps went out under warranty, the other out of warranty.... The glue melted on the tweeter modifications and fell into the dash... took me forever to figure out where the highs went. The dynamat on the doors caused shorts in the speakers and also sometimes caused issues with the window going up and down... and probably other issues.  And I had multiple installers look the system over (not a self install). You mess with the car you are inviting problems.

 

A simple speaker swap should be pretty safe though... but there is probably going to be a little modification, just the way the OEM parts work... they want you to get the part from the dealer and make it harder for you to get something off the self. The Polk install looked pretty clean though... only a minor cut for the tweeter if I recall correctly.

[ls1ssws6]

What speakers sounds good is different for many people. Are you looking for accurate reproduction of sound? (The Sony system does not, but I think it sounds better than a lot of other systems.)  Are you looking for more volume, sound pressure -- big bass? What kind of music do you listen to?

 

For accurate reproduction, Focal & Infinity would be near the top of my list... I have not heard Polk for car speakers, but I have them at home and they are great... tend to be a little more mid and bass. Good choice for classic rock. You will get more value out of some of the Infinity line or Polk though.

 

If you want something that will move some air -- hard rock, hip hop, metal, etc, then I think that Rockford Fosgate can be a solid choice, it will also take a lot more abuse than the speakers above. Would not want to listen to piano or classical on them though. AC/DC or Tool sounds amazing on them though.

 

The thing that would give me pause with spending for the Focal would be is the amp clean enough and powerful enough for them. If the amp does not have a clean signal, they will sound bad. My last setup had JL Audio amps (~800 watts) with Focal drivers and a JL Audio 10 sub. Sounded amazing -- and I will never do it again. As the system aged the heat gave me issues with the digital signal processor... one of my amps went out under warranty, the other out of warranty.... The glue melted on the tweeter modifications and fell into the dash... took me forever to figure out where the highs went. The dynamat on the doors caused shorts in the speakers and also sometimes caused issues with the window going up and down... and probably other issues.  And I had multiple installers look the system over (not a self install). You mess with the car you are inviting problems.

 

A simple speaker swap should be pretty safe though... but there is probably going to be a little modification, just the way the OEM parts work... they want you to get the part from the dealer and make it harder for you to get something off the self. The Polk install looked pretty clean though... only a minor cut for the tweeter if I recall correctly.

 

i have always had infinity speakers installed in all of my cars and my last car the 13 kia optima had an infinity system factory and i loved it. It just seems that this sony system is just flat. i dont want anything crazy, been there and done that. i just want to do some speaker and tweeter swaps. I listen mainly to rap,hip hop, and some clubby type music (bpm on sirius). That is pretty much it.

 

I am leaning towards the infinity primus cause it comes with tweeters and speakers. I am not planning on replacing the amp or anything, like i said dont want to go crazy just get some better sound. Or do you think getting the kappas with the tweeters built in would be better cause then i could keep the factory tweeters as well.

 

thanks for your input. 

[meyersnole]

The Sony system is currently set up as a component system. You can add a 2 way or 3 way into the mix with the original tweeters, but you are going to change the roll off rate and you are going to have to watch your ohm load. Have not looked at this system so I do not know if it is already running at 4 ohm or 2 ohm load. Any good installer will be able to ensure that though. And the roll off will will just be personal preference.

 

I am a little surprised that you think the Sony system sounds flat. Personally I think it is a little boomy with a strong mid preference (lacks that tight bass kick, but the bass tones are definitely there -- just sloppy). 

 

As I said earlier, everyone hears things differently. You really need to go to a store and listen to speakers to see which ones you like. Don't let them demo them to you off a $1000 amp either, try to get it as close to what you plan on hearing in the car. Also try to listen to different speakers with the same source.

 

If you go through with it make sure you come back and let us know what you did and how you like it.  Good luck!

[ls1ssws6]

Maybe I am just used to the infinity system that was in my optima. I have always liked infinity so I think I'm gonna stick with them. As far as the ohms, I was gonna just replace the speakers myself,what should I look for when replacing? I don't wana mess anything up. I have always done my own systems but never on a new car so I don't wana foul anything up.

[HotLap]

ls, not sure this is going to help you or not, but I've had excellent results with the Infinity Kappa speakers over the years.  I generally upgrade all of my stock speakers with the Kappas.  Stay away from the Infinity Reference speakers, just not nearly as good as the Kappas (IMO) and not a big price difference between the two with the Kappas being slightly more expensive.  However, having said that, the Kappa speakers will handle much more power than the stock input and wont really sound a lot better than the stock speakers unless you add an amp.  I was about to do this on my 2013 Platinum, (as I had already changed out the speakers for Kappas) but traded it for the FFE.  The FFE Sony sound is OK, and I may just leave it alone for now...by the way, I've had all 4 of my door panels off (Dynamat install) and they are very easy to remove.  One "gotcha" is the plastic cover that is behind the door pull handles (covering a bolt you have to remove).  They are pried out and be sure and use a small flat head screwdriver and pop them out from the FRONT bottom edge.  The front edge pops out then you pull the cover out and forwards (concurrently) as there are plastic tabs in the rear that will snap if you try and pop the cover out from the rear edge...I know this firsthand :)  Then pop out the window switch panel and you'll see two smaller bolts there, then unscrew the two bolts along the lower edge of the door trim and the panel pulls straight out.  This is unlike other Fords I've had that have plastic "hooks" on the back of the door panel that you must pull up then out...good luck!!

Edited October 8, 2014 at 08:05 PM by HotLap

[HotLap]

By the way, precious little sound deadener on the inside of the door skins, (probably money & weight savings), but a good dose of Dynamat and the doors don't vibrate/rattle as much with the sound turned up and they close with a very solid "thunk" now.  Another area that was bugging me was an annoying (bass induced) rattle right at the upper rear of the driver and passenger door panels.  A quarter inch by one inch piece of Dynamat 1/4" acoustical foam stuck to the underside of the panel where it meets the door frame cured it for good!

[Rhynri]

I can't stand the Sony system in the Fusion.  It sounds like utter garbage next to the speakers in my trade-in, a 2013 Jetta Sportwagen.  WAY too much mids (I can't duck them enough with the controls), the front door speakers (the lower speaker) sound like flapping paper, and the imaging is super touchy, and the treble is brittle.  It's almost listenable if I slide my seat all the way back, but that's not a comfortable position to drive.  Makes me wonder if the guy who drove my car to the dealer (it was a dealer trade) blew out the sound system before it got there.  Or if something's broken.  The whole left side seems to "pop" on a few minutes after I start listening.  Good thing I have some good headphones, sounds like I'm going to need them.  Is this how this system sounds, or is it just mine?

Edited November 18, 2014 at 05:43 AM by Rhynri

[stevedebi]

I can't stand the Sony system in the Fusion.  It sounds like utter garbage next to the speakers in my trade-in, a 2013 Jetta Sportwagen.  WAY too much mids (I can't duck them enough with the controls), the front door speakers (the lower speaker) sound like flapping paper, and the imaging is super touchy, and the treble is brittle.  It's almost listenable if I slide my seat all the way back, but that's not a comfortable position to drive.  Makes me wonder if the guy who drove my car to the dealer (it was a dealer trade) blew out the sound system before it got there.  Or if something's broken.  The whole left side seems to "pop" on a few minutes after I start listening.  Good thing I have some good headphones, sounds like I'm going to need them.  Is this how this system sounds, or is it just mine?

Headphones? You can't drive with headphones on...

 

I'm assuming you adjusted the equalizer and it didn't help?

[Rexracer]

I use to drive a Ranger pickup, 04 in about 06, and over the course of a few months had all speakers replaced under warrenty. They just went bad really easy. Also on our 08 RDX, had 1 or 2 speakers go bad.

 

So yes, I would say its completely possible that someone blew then while moving the car around. Try isolating a single speaker to check them out individually.

[Hybridbear]

You can do a speaker test by pressing and holding the eject & fast-forward buttons at the same time.

[Rhynri]

Headphones? You can't drive with headphones on...

 

I'm assuming you adjusted the equalizer and it didn't help?

 

I did, hence my "can't duck [i.e. reduce] them enough," which I now realize isn't very clear, my apologies.  It is illegal to drive with earbuds in both ears in Minnesota (but fine with just one, and I was kind of joking).  It is legal in most states though, which makes sense.  A quiet car with the stereo on is at least as isolating as most headphones.  Also, deaf people drive just fine without any aural input.  As far as the sound goes, my salesman helped me compare another FFT's stereo to mine.  Mine is most definitely broken somehow, and it now sounds like the whole door has up and quit.  Probably a wiring or amp problem.  To top it off, I have a CEL on now.  Car's falling apart already!   :hysterical:

Edited November 18, 2014 at 08:15 PM by Rhynri

[Rhynri]

You can do a speaker test by pressing and holding the eject & fast-forward buttons at the same time.

That's very useful Hybridbear!  I just did that.  The left front door signal (not tweeter) is very quiet.  There seems to be a lot of useful diagnostic information there. Thanks again!

Edited November 18, 2014 at 07:47 PM by Rhynri

[HotLap]

Just my opinion, but the Sony system is not very good for a Titanium trim level.  Too much flat midrange and the bass is there but very sloppy, not tight at all.  This system sounds worse than the Sony I had in my Platinum F-150, which  really wasn't the greatest either.  I may end up adding a 4 channel amp and Infinity Kappa speakers...

[Rhynri]

I have to say it: it's Sony.  They don't make good products.  They do however, have a nasty habit of worming their way into my life by producing or being included in the only product that meets my needs.  And they don't have the slightest whiff of how to do Audio, as near as I can tell.  I'd take the (Dynaudio?) system in the Jetta any day over the system in the FFET, even though on paper the Fusion's looks much better.  That Sony system is just on the bleeding edge of what I consider "listenable", which is unfortunate, because I can't change it.  On the flip side, I have been enjoying driving in silence lately.  It's quite calming.  I'm being 100% serious saying that too.  :salute:   Although it is disappointing that 43 large doesn't buy better audio. 

[meyersnole]

Actually, I think Sony makes very good products. They also happen to make junk. Ever listen to Sony ES? Quite the jump from their entry level offerings. 

 

When I was shopping for this car, the stereo system was a major step up from whatever disaster they put in the Toyota Avalon (JBL Synthesis).

 

As stated above and affirmed by many in this thread, the system is mid heavy with very sloppy bass. However the system sounds fine at lower sound levels (not cranked) with a few adjustments to the EQ. Once you turn the system up its total garbage -- I am guessing that the amp is not very good. 

[Rhynri]

I don't doubt you there, meyersnole, I'm just displeased with them as a brand because I made the mistake of buying a Sony laptop.  Mine is a very high end one (that unfortunately happens to be the only product that meets my needs).  The factory build quality is trash, literal trash.  The display can't even open all the way without the screen flickering and it's a convertible laptop (A Flip 15 with the high-end display).  This is a 2200$ laptop we are talking about (I use it for game production) and it might as well be made from cardboard for how poorly built it is.  I've heard some good Sony headphones, but in general everything Sony I've encountered has been subpar for the category and price.   

On a side note, is it just me or does wattage as a rating have jack to do with actual output on modern car stereos.  I'm probably biased though, all my other audio equipment is 70s or earlier vintage and sounds amazing, so it's probably not a fair comparison.

Edited December 24, 2014 at 08:41 PM by Rhynri

[meyersnole]

I don't doubt you there, meyersnole, I'm just displeased with them as a brand because I made the mistake of buying a Sony laptop.  Mine is a very high end one (that unfortunately happens to be the only product that meets my needs).  The factory build quality is trash, literal trash.  The display can't even open all the way without the screen flickering and it's a convertible laptop (A Flip 15 with the high-end display).  This is a 2200$ laptop we are talking about (I use it for game production) and it might as well be made from cardboard for how poorly built it is.  I've heard some good Sony headphones, but in general everything Sony I've encountered has been subpar for the category and price.   

On a side note, is it just me or does wattage as a rating have jack to do with actual output on modern car stereos.  I'm probably biased though, all my other audio equipment is 70s or earlier vintage and sounds amazing, so it's probably not a fair comparison.

Ah, I thought we were talking audio. Yes, Sony's attempt at computers has not gone well and I think they have or are about to throw in the towel there.

 

On your comment on wattage. You have to be careful as to what you are looking at, especially the distortion rate at which the sample was taken. The higher the distortion, the less pleasing that wattage level will sound to your ears (usable). Also on lower end brands they will list dynamic range (peak wattage) rather than average. Those short burst to 200 watts are much easier to produce than to sustain and takes a much larger amp. Then you can have a discussion about class A, class B, class A/B, class D amps and the proper setup to make them sound correct.

[Rhynri]

That's probably what it is.  The receiver I'd love to own someday, the Panasonic Technics SA-1000, was rated 330watts/channel at 0.03%.    But it weighed 87 lbs.  My current SA-700 is no lightweight itself.  I just haven't paid much attention to anything built in the past 30 years, I guess, so when I see 600 watts I'm expecting something different than what reality dictates.  Thanks for the info, meyersnole.
 

[bp22911@yahoo.com]

I just put Infinity Reference REF-5020cx component speakers in all four doors of my 2013 FFE. I set the crossovers to 0 and used foam baffles around the rear woofers (couldn't do it for the fronts as the windows would strike the baffles). Sounds awesome. Clear, loud and tight, with no rattles or boomy-sounding mids anymore. These are a new design Reference speakers that are much better than the older models, and as most if not all Infinity models are 3 ohm speakers that work well with under-powered stock receivers.