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prospective owner, a few questions about realistic mpg.


roastbeef
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hello everyone, i currently daily drive my 2011 bmw m3. it is incredibly fun to drive, but i'm contemplating picking up a ford fusion energi to commute with to lessen the time my m3 spends on the road. i have done a fair amount of research, and if i am going to go the plug-in hybrid route, the fusion energi would be my choice. 

 

i know sometimes mpg or mpg-e ratings can be somewhat deceiving. i just wanted to ask a pool of actual owners what realistic mpg(e) i can expect on my ~20 mile city/highway commute. 

are the advertised charge times accurate?

 

can i expect to get close to the 20 mile full electric range if i'm easy with the right foot?

 

thanks for the help. i'm no stranger to auto forums, and i know people like pictures... here is a pic of my current ride.

IMG_4266_zps5db52ea4.jpg

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In southern CA you should easily get 22 miles on a charge as long as you don't do jack rabbit starts.  It takes slightly over 2 hours to charge an empty battery using a 240 volt charger or between 5 and 6 hours using the 120 volt charger that comes with the car.  Is that 20 mile commute the one-way or round trip distance?  My MPGe is in my signature.

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I never achieve 20+ EV-only miles unless my entire drive home is in slow traffic. Normally my battery is done at 15-18 miles. However, I have to qualify that my 21-mile commute home is mostly uphill and on freeways. In the morning, as you would expect, my commute is mostly downhill where I can recover lots of regen miles, so I never use gas going that direction.

 

For example, today I used 3.9 kWh for 15.3 miles from home to work on mostly sidestreets. Since I had a bit of slow traffic going home, I used 5.7 kWh (the entire battery) plus 0.05 gallons of gas for the 21.5 mile drive home using the freeway.

 

But on Friday, I used 5.4 kWh and 0.1 gallons of gas driving 15.3 miles home on the same sidestreets I use in the morning, because it's uphill and I drove in AutoEV (so the gas engine kicked in when I needed some oomph).

 

On a typical day going home with no traffic driving on the freeway (65-75 mph), my commute home is about 16 EV miles and 5.5 miles using gas (0.2 gallons, usually). If I lived where the land was flat, I'd probably get the full 20 EV miles even with freeway driving.

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thanks. the 20 mile commute is one way, so 40 miles in a day. what would you say is your combined (hybrid) mpg? i'm assuming it is different than mpge. from what i understand, mpge is strictly electric. 

Mine is not a technical answer and is very simplistic.  You can make your trip to work--20 mi--on the electric charge.  Assuming your battery is depleted you can get 43 mpg on your return trip in hybrid mode, using less than half a gallon of gas.  So, you have driven 40 miles and used less than a half gallon of gas.  You do the math.  But don't forget to account for the electricity to charge the battery at home.

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i appreciate the responses, thanks. i'm getting about 16mpg combined in my m3. the m3 is almost paid off and i'm thinking trying to weigh not having a car payment versus buying a fusion energi. the fuel savings alone would almost absorb the fusion energi payment, and would likely be worth reducing the wear and maintenance on the m. 

 

i haven't figured out how to calculate what it would cost to charge a fusion energi using socal's prices, but just googling our kwh costs, i'm thinking it is dirt cheap. also, socal edison (my power provider) offers the option of installing a separate power meter just for an electric vehicle for a discounted power rate. 

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I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet:

 

If you get one now, while it is nice 'n warm and summertime, you'll be totally enthralled with the EV performance, MPG performance, etc.  But, once winter hits, you will see a significant reduction in EV range.

 

You mentioned you're in SoCal, so you won't be at the extreme end of cold, but I know some on here crank the heat up when it's 50 outside (wimps call that cold ;)).  The electric heater will chew through EV range by a lot.

 

To help mitigate that, the installation of a 240 volt EVSE will help, especially with preconditioning (you set a time for your car to start heating/cooling the cabin so it's ready for you to go at your departure time).  But still, you will see a big impact to your EV travels.

 

The car, as a full 1 year fuel economy average, if you drive it conservatively, will still exceed EPA estimates.  A vast majority of my travels are EV only, but when winter hits, I'm pretty much driving a very efficient gas vehicle again (my winter temps go sub-zero F often enough).  My lifetime average is 102MPGe.  I've put gas in it 4 times since purchase.

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If you want to get there all EV, you would need to slow down on the highway to 55mph or less.  Car won't make it at 70mph.  You could also drive the country road, shortest way to your office, and you will probably make it to work and 1/2 way back home (get 30 miles EV) if you know how to make every ounce of energi count.

 

I drive the Cmax not the fusion, which does better than the Fusion as slower speeds and the Fusion is better for faster speeds (highway) due to streamlining.  I preferred the Cmax because it was much better to load stuff in it that then Fusion.  That's just a 4 passenger car with no trunk.

 

If there is any way to charge at work even with a 110v outlet somewhere there you can come back home all EV as well.  In southern California even in the winter you can leave your jacket on and gloves in the car and spare using the heat and still make 20 miles one way.  I can get 22 miles in the winter at 0-10F with no heat, southern CA you're going to be at least 30-40 degrees warmer than that.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited by rbort
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If you want to get there all EV, you would need to slow down on the highway to 55mph or less.  Car won't make it at 70mph.  You could also drive the country road, shortest way to your office, and you will probably make it to work and 1/2 way back home (get 30 miles EV) if you know how to make every ounce of energi count.

 

I drive the Cmax not the fusion, which does better than the Fusion as slower speeds and the Fusion is better for faster speeds (highway) due to streamlining.  I preferred the Cmax because it was much better to load stuff in it that then Fusion.  That's just a 4 passenger car with no trunk.

 

If there is any way to charge at work even with a 110v outlet somewhere there you can come back home all EV as well.  In southern California even in the winter you can leave your jacket on and gloves in the car and spare using the heat and still make 20 miles one way.  I can get 22 miles in the winter at 0-10F with no heat, southern CA you're going to be at least 30-40 degrees warmer than that.

 

-=>Raja.

 

i'm not sure i have the patience to drive less than 75-80 on these socal freeways. if i did 55, someone would run into the back of me or i'd see a lot of middle fingers. no such thing as a country road here, but i get the reference.

 

not sure about charging at work. i'd have to ask.  

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...i haven't figured out how to calculate what it would cost to charge a fusion energi using socal's prices, but just googling our kwh costs, i'm thinking it is dirt cheap. also, socal edison (my power provider) offers the option of installing a separate power meter just for an electric vehicle for a discounted power rate. 

Pretty easy to figure your cost to charge a fully depleted battery.  At 10 cents per kwh it costs approximately 75 cents to charge the battery.  Just figure your cost based on your kwh price.

Edited by JATR4
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At 75 to 80 you're probably going to get about 13 miles range out of the battery, so 2/3 rd's battery 1/3 rd engine to get there.  The engine will probably yield around 28mpg or there abouts at that speed while trying to charge the battery.  You'll burn the battery and a 1/4 gallon of gas to get there.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited by rbort
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If ypou check out my daily commute pics, thats my daily commute...I switch back and forth between EV auto to Later, and of course, depends on weather, ect..but thats about it. I try and do anything under 55, I'm EV auto, I try and do 60-65 on the highways and I use my AC/Heat. The pics are when the temp was 97+ tho that last commute pic, I had the AC on and the moonroof cracked open. Didnt know it was open since the cover was closed...

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By the way, don't drive the battery at 80 miles per hour every day and drain it in 10 minutes, its not good for the battery.  If you decide to get this car, you should change your driving habits from getting there as fast as possible to getting there as efficient as possible.  This is how this car was designed, and it cannot perform well pedal to the metal.  Heck you might even be trying to go to small claims court like this guy in 2 years time:

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3858-call-for-character-witness-small-claims-against-ford-ann-arbor-mi/

 

EV hybrid mode goes downhill over 65mph and draining the battery fast at high loads heats it up and over time its going to lose capacity faster than other batteries that live a better life, meaning you will get less and less EV miles out of it.

 

-=>Raja.

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I never achieve 20+ EV-only miles unless my entire drive home is in slow traffic. Normally my battery is done at 15-18 miles. However, I have to qualify that my 21-mile commute home is mostly uphill and on freeways. In the morning, as you would expect, my commute is mostly downhill where I can recover lots of regen miles, so I never use gas going that direction.

 

For example, today I used 3.9 kWh for 15.3 miles from home to work on mostly sidestreets. Since I had a bit of slow traffic going home, I used 5.7 kWh (the entire battery) plus 0.05 gallons of gas for the 21.5 mile drive home using the freeway.

 

But on Friday, I used 5.4 kWh and 0.1 gallons of gas driving 15.3 miles home on the same sidestreets I use in the morning, because it's uphill and I drove in AutoEV (so the gas engine kicked in when I needed some oomph).

 

On a typical day going home with no traffic driving on the freeway (65-75 mph), my commute home is about 16 EV miles and 5.5 miles using gas (0.2 gallons, usually). If I lived where the land was flat, I'd probably get the full 20 EV miles even with freeway driving.

 

This morning I attempted the other side of the equation: driving to work on the highway (21.5 miles) instead of on my usual side streets (15.3 miles). If the uphill driving on the way home is indeed the mitigating factor preventing me from achieving an EV-only trip, then going the opposite direction should allow for it.

 

Lo and behold, I got to work this morning without using a drop of gas, driving 20.6 miles (8.1 miles of that from regen). Granted, there was a lot of stop-and-go traffic, so I'm dubious whether I could have achieved this driving 65-75 mph most of the way. But at least I did finally achieve 20+ EV-only miles on a single charge. (And I still had 1 kWh left on the battery, so I could have gone even farther.)

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Lo and behold, I got to work this morning without using a drop of gas, driving 20.6 miles (8.1 miles of that from regen). Granted, there was a lot of stop-and-go traffic, so I'm dubious whether I could have achieved this driving 65-75 mph most of the way. But at least I did finally achieve 20+ EV-only miles on a single charge. (And I still had 1 kWh left on the battery, so I could have gone even farther.)

 

 

On the highway,

 

At around 50mph you should be able to get 22.5 miles range (or more if your battery is new).

 

Sounds like you can charge at work too, so drive the highway in the AM, then drive the country road of 15.3 miles on the way home, but slow down a little bit and you should make it with the hills.

 

Try not to accelerate up hills, instead lose some speed by limiting battery power to 2 bars tops.

 

With practice you should make it.  15 miles is not out of the question on a full battery.

 

Try to get out of the habit of starting the engine for a mile here or there or 0.1 gallons.  Over time this will cause moisture in the oil and force an engine run for 20 minutes/miles to dry out the oil (Oil Maintenance Mode).  If you start the engine you want to run it at least until it warms up to 1/2 way on the gage.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited by rbort
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Yeah, I have absolutely no interest in driving like that. I bought the FFE specifically because it has more powerful acceleration than the Chevy Volt or Cadillac ELR (my previous two cars) when the gas engine is assisting. I'm not a hypermiler who freaks out every time the gas engine turns on, nor do I want to inconvenience everyone around me by driving slower than the prevailing speed. And I definitely do not want to creep up hills even more slowly than my Volt/ELR was able to do. If I wanted all-EV driving, I would have bought a Tesla or waited for the 2016 Gen II Volt.

 

The only reason for my testing these past two weeks was to see if Ford's claims were accurate, so if I needed to drive EV-only for some reason, the car would perform as expected. I'm a little disappointed in the real-world mileage vs. Ford's claims, but it's good enough for me to fill up the gas tank fewer than 6 times per year. Having to suffer the stink of a gas station every 2-3 months is eminently acceptable for the improved performance and overall EV/gas combined range of my 2015 FFE.

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^^^  OK then just step on the gas and don't worry about it.  But if you don't get the mpg rating or ev expected advertised range please don't blame Ford for it.  There is a guy taking Ford to court in the Cmax forum for this same reason, he couldn't get the EV or gas range in either a Focus Electric or Cmax Energi.

 

-=>Raja.

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^^^ That's pretty much what I'm going to do. Once I've satisfied my curiosity, I'm going to put the car in AutoEV and never think about it again. Well, unless I'm driving long distance, in which case I'll use EV Later when appropriate. I'm absolutely not gathering "evidence" for a future complaint - I knew exactly what I was getting before signing the lease, after learning my lesson with the Cadillac ELR and all its hidden problems.

 

Still, I really love that I was able to drive to work this morning EV-only with the cooled seats and A/C on, sound system rocking, and car accelerating reasonably well for most maneuvers. The car is also nice and quiet, which is a real treat.

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By the way, don't drive the battery at 80 miles per hour every day and drain it in 10 minutes, its not good for the battery.  If you decide to get this car, you should change your driving habits from getting there as fast as possible to getting there as efficient as possible.  This is how this car was designed, and it cannot perform well pedal to the metal.  Heck you might even be trying to go to small claims court like this guy in 2 years time:

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3858-call-for-character-witness-small-claims-against-ford-ann-arbor-mi/

 

EV hybrid mode goes downhill over 65mph and draining the battery fast at high loads heats it up and over time its going to lose capacity faster than other batteries that live a better life, meaning you will get less and less EV miles out of it.

 

-=>Raja.

 

Interesting that he's in Michigan.  I'd be half tempted to borrow his car for a day and make the same 187 mile trip I did yesterday and see what his car gets.  Ann Arbor is about 25 miles from me.

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Interesting that he's in Michigan.  I'd be half tempted to borrow his car for a day and make the same 187 mile trip I did yesterday and see what his car gets.  Ann Arbor is about 25 miles from me.

Do you have access to a tablet or phone with FORScan or Torque Pro? I wonder if he has a defective HVB. You could probably get an idea from the ETE.

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Do you have access to a tablet or phone with FORScan or Torque Pro? I wonder if he has a defective HVB. You could probably get an idea from the ETE.

 

Nope.  I'm not much of a data miner for the car.  I just go by what it tells me in the displays and keep a general idea of its performance.

 

I'm willing to bet an adjustment behind the wheel is all that is needed for his car, and I could tell that just by driving it.

 

However, if he's really grouchy about the winter performance of the car... well, we all suffer from that.  However, if you do an average of your economy for 1 full year (all 4 seasons), you should come out to EPA averages.

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