Considering Fusion Energi & typical electric only freeway miles

[geohec]

I'm considering buying a 2016 Fusion Energi but I need help from actual owners.   I've searched this forum for this information but haven't seen recent discussions about this in this section.

 

Now, I know there are lots of factors that affect the electric only miles that you can get (i.e. A/C, heater, etc), but I was curious about real owner experiences.

 

My situation is that my work is starting to build a free charging station in my facility and I'm interested in taking advantage of this opportunity.   My work commute is about 25 miles and its all freeway with speeds of about 55 mph on realatively flat.   

 

I'm curious if can get close to that range and essentially I could have about half my commute paid for by my work.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks from long time Ford owner.

[murphy]

The faster you go the quicker the battery will be drained because air drag increases with the square of the velocity.

 

In the summer time I can easily make a 25 mile round trip but my maximum speed is 45 mph and is mostly 35 mph.

In the winter time, with temperatures in the 30s and using the heater, I can only go half that far on battery.

 

Can you partition your trip?  Leave the house on electric until you reach the freeway entrance.  Then switch to EV Later for the freeway part of the trip.  When you exit the freeway switch back to electric only for the rest of the trip to work.  Use the same approach on the way home.

[Taz]

I don't have a Fusion Energi but  C-max. The drivetrain is pretty much the same. Max range is 33 miles if i Don't go over 45 mph. Since you are in California you shouldn't have to worry too much about super cold or hot. This will help quite a bit as heating and AC can really suck down electrons if you crank them up.

 

You are likely a very good candidate for the car based on your commute. At 55 you likely could just squeeze out your commute on battery alone. Keep in mind that driving at night or a headwind might have you come up a bit shy. In general running purely on electric may not always be the best choice anyway. 

 

Based on how drive my C-max it can cost me more than gas per gallon or less. I won't likely go back to either a pure electric or a normal hybrid again. The Energi has a pretty good blend of performance vs. economy. Sure, I would love another 10 miles range at time but it isn't a deal breaker for me. 

 

As mentioned use the battery for your commute to the highway and off the highway. Basically any time you are over 50 use the engine, below 50 use electric. Works quite well that well. My last tank I've gone 400 miles so far on just 3.9 gallons of gasoline commuting around LA following that strategy. So if want to cruise at 80 on electric, I'd get about 9-10 miles. At 70 it seems around 14 or so. At 60 about 20-21. My worst tank ever was 33 mpg fully loaded @ 85 mph cruise, climbing mountains and a lot of rain as well. I think it would hard to do worse than that which is still pretty darn good in the grans scheme of things.

[geohec]

Thanks for the information.   It is helpful for me having to figure out which way to go.   As I mentioned above, my one way commute is 25 miles or round trip of 50 miles.

 

Also, I own solar panels and I'm just about breaking even on electricity, so home electricity would be about 0.16/kWh (tier 1) so I could charge at home for for $1.25 per charge for my morning commute.   And my work having a free charging station helps for evening commute.  I would just use a little gas everyday to make it work.

 

My other option that I've been looking into getting a 2016 chevy volt which gets close to 50 miles which means I could do a round trip for free.   Obviously there are trade offs.   The Ford Fusion reviews for driving and comfort have been very positive where the Volt reviews on cabin space are a little more cramped, though the driving experience is expected to be good. 

 

Primarily my new vehicle would be a commuter vehicle but could used for small family trips.   Decisions, decisions.....

 

Currently, I'm leaning toward the volt but I'm being swayed to the fusion energi.  

 

Thanks for your help.

Edited July 29, 2015 at 11:31 PM by jeff_h

[Taz]

Have you thought about buying a used Fusion? I bought my C-max for about half the price of new with just 3k miles on it. Keep in mind that if you have to run the Volt on gas, it isn't as efficient as a Fusion in hybrid mode. 

 

As for the recharge cost, less than what you think. Ford has been very conservative (best approach) in order to extend the life of the battery. Typically you only get to use about 5.3-5.5 kW from the pack. So factor in about 80 cents to recharge it. On my C-max I can go over 600 miles on a tank now and starting with a full pack. As for electric consumption, I am getting about 6 miles per kW used. Ford factored in about 3.7 miles per kW when they said the range was 20 miles.

 

I drove a friend's Volt quite a bit and my coworker had one. Not a bad car but I like a lot of the stuff Ford has done. The driving experience is very engaging. In addition the Ford app is very useful. I can monitor my charge from my phone while the car is in the garage. I can change charging times, setup the AC or heater to condition the car before I get in and more.

 

Ford put a lot of homework into the app and while not perfect, it is pretty good. I also like that I can fit 5 people in the car if needed. One last plus is the autopark feature. My wife loves this as it makes parallel parking a breeze.

 

As one more data point, on this tank until I was pretty much using electric, I was at using mostly hybrid mode. In my LA commuting I was at almost 57mpg. My lifetime average until this tank was 40 mpg. This included a 1,700 mile trip (more like a race according to my wife) across the Southwest. No attempt was paid to try and get good fuel economy. Basically we had a lot of ground to cover and racked up the miles in a bit over 2 days. Again this in the C-max which might not be quite as efficient as the Fusion. 

[geohec]

Thanks!  That is great information.

 

I do plan on buying new because I would like to take advantage of the $9000 fed and state rebate and it's been 10 years since I've bought a car so it's time to step into the some newer features and comfort.  Not to mention my family of four is now growing from kids to teenagers.

 

Currently, I'm spending a little over $200 in gas/month and I was hoping to remove that cost by buying a new EV with gas back up.   The new volt has nice styling and a strong following of happy customers and could remove my entire fuel cost if I charged up at work but the slightly cramped specs have me second guessing myself.   The new fusion energi has great reviews for comfortable driving and comfort features like adaptive cruise control, parallel park, power seats, etc.   Some of these features are not available on the volt.

 

As I mentioned earlier, it will be primarily a 50 mile round trip commuter car for me but could be so much more if I choose the fusion.   It will be a tough decision but a test drive of both vehicles will most likely be the deciding factor.   The volts are due to start arriving at dealerships in the next month or two.   So I have some time to decide.  

 

Thanks again.

[Taz]

The Fusion is a nice car. Spend more than a few minutes in both. That will help you decide.

 

As for my point about not buying new, I saved almost 20k by buying a 1 year old car. It had only 2900 miles on it and the balance of the factory warranty. That 20k amounted to a lot more than the 9k in state and federal incentives. Just something to think about. My payments to own the car are less than even lease payments would have been on a new one. Then factor in the biggest hit for depreciation has already been taken and I can probably drive the Energi at a very low TCO. One final major plus is not having to deal with all the paperwork trying to get my tax credit from the Feds.

 

If you have teenagers, the Volt is cramped in the back. My two oldest never would have fit in the back of a Volt do to the very swooping rear roof line. On sort of a side note, the way GM handled the bailout made sure I'll likely never buy another car from them even though I'd really love to have a new Vette.

 

Anyway most likely once realized how nice it is to choice what energy source to drive you'll might wonder why you waited to buy one. I had a Nissan Leaf and a lot of things to like about it. But having no choice but to plug in was a lot of stress especially in a colder climate.

[jeff_h]

If you have teenagers, the Volt is cramped in the back. My two oldest never would have fit in the back of a Volt do to the very swooping rear roof line. On sort of a side note, the way GM handled the bailout made sure I'll likely never buy another car from them even though I'd really love to have a new Vette.

 

I have sat in every seat of the 2016 Volt (during a sneak preview of the Tomorrowland movie where they had the car on display in front of a theater in downtown DC), to include the "5th seat" -- I'm considering the car due to the much larger HVB, but also because I rarely have people in the backseat.  So I guess each model has a caveat that should not be ignored:

 

1 - If you will make use of the rear seat of the Volt on any kind of a routine basis, be sure to scope out the size fully to make sure it will work for you.

 

2 - If you will make use of the trunk of the Energi on any kind of a routine basis, be sure to scope out the size fully to make sure it will work for you.

 

So there are upsides and downsides for each model, but from the OP's above posts he already knew that, but does bear repeating. 

 

Happy hunting.

[JATR4]

Thanks!  That is great information.

 

I do plan on buying new because I would like to take advantage of the $9000 fed and state rebate...

The federal credit is not a rebate.    The federal tax credit plus state rebate would only be $5,507 for the Energi vs $9,000 for the Volt.  And you have to have a corresponding tax liability to take advantage of the federal credit. 

[geohec]

JATR4, thank you for the information!

 

I did know that the federal part was a tax credit but I did NOT know that it was based on battery size.   I googleed the tax code, and it says:

 

"For vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500"

 

So the way I read this, you get a $2500 plus $417/kwh battery * 7.6 kwh battery = 2500 + 3169 = $ 5669.   In addition, I would get an additional $1500 rebate for living and buying in California for a grand total of incentives = $7169

 

Is my math correct?

 

Again, thanks to everyone for helping my out on this post.   Like I said earlier, I was originally focused on the volt and was caught up on that vehicle but I'm slowly coming up to speed on the differences between the two vehicles.   Last night I started a list of pros and cons along with specification differences.   The incentives will also go on the list.  

 

Thanks.

[murphy]

The tax credit for an Energi is $4007.

 

$2500 + $417 + (2.61391 x $417)

 

The multiplication is only for the part that exceeds 5 kWh.

 

The math doesn't matter.  The credit is $4007.

[Taz]

The problem for some people with it being a tax credit, is you may not have enough Federal taxes to really benefit you. Not to mention the process isn't fast. However if you lease the car, it is all factored in up front into the cost. I found that was a better way to go with my Nissan Leaf.

 

I didn't have to hassle with the paperwork, wait for my credit, etc. For me it worked out great as I realized i wouldn't want to own the Leaf long term after driving it for a while. I was able to walk away from it after 2  years and not look back. 

 

One thing to really keep in mind that the Volt is based on same platform as the Cruze. This is a compact car inside. Like being in a Honda Civic or a Kia Forte whereas the Fusion is a midsized car. So if backseat size is very important to you, then the Volt might not be a good fit so to speak. 

 

I do think Chevy made a lot of improvements in the car from the last gen car. Keep in mind that there could be some teething problems since it is the first year of the new generation. I wish they had done a bit more with the styling. It really does look a lot like a Kia Forte sedan now. I do appreciate larger battery pack though Chevy did sneak in a bigger one on the 2015 models. I do appreciate that like Ford, they are conservative with how energy they want to draw from the pack. They didn't do much to address the range when not on electric. I like being able to have a 600 mile range with my car. It gives me a lot of options of where to fuel up on a trip or wait an extra week or so if I think gas prices might go down.

[stevedebi]

Thanks!  That is great information.

 

I do plan on buying new because I would like to take advantage of the $9000 fed and state rebate and it's been 10 years since I've bought a car so it's time to step into the some newer features and comfort.  Not to mention my family of four is now growing from kids to teenagers.

 

Currently, I'm spending a little over $200 in gas/month and I was hoping to remove that cost by buying a new EV with gas back up.   The new volt has nice styling and a strong following of happy customers and could remove my entire fuel cost if I charged up at work but the slightly cramped specs have me second guessing myself.   The new fusion energi has great reviews for comfortable driving and comfort features like adaptive cruise control, parallel park, power seats, etc.   Some of these features are not available on the volt.

 

As I mentioned earlier, it will be primarily a 50 mile round trip commuter car for me but could be so much more if I choose the fusion.   It will be a tough decision but a test drive of both vehicles will most likely be the deciding factor.   The volts are due to start arriving at dealerships in the next month or two.   So I have some time to decide.  

 

Thanks again.

A 50 mile commute is going to be tough to achieve in a Fusion Energi, especially in winter temperatures. If you are really insist on all EV, the Volt might be the way to go. But I think you are on the right track - drive both. It might be worth a couple gallons a week to drive the Fusion, with it's comfort and conveniences. But do consider cargo capacity as well!

 

Just my thoughts - I drive a C-Max Energi myself - I prefer the driver position and the height of the car.

 

Another wild thought - used Nissan Leafs are going for a bit over 10K. That might work out as a commuter.

Edited July 30, 2015 at 05:35 PM by stevedebi

[Hybridbear]

You could get the gen 1 Volt to save some money & drive all EV on your commute. I doubt you would get 25 miles of EV range with freeway driving in there. You may make it at first, but as the HVB degrades you would no longer make it. Also, since you would be completely depleting the battery pack twice a day you would have much faster degradation than other owners aren't as hard on the pack. Completely depleting the pack, like you would do a 25 mile commute, is the hardest thing for it. The car is designed to be driven that way, but you should be aware that by using that much of the battery pack twice a day you would have faster degradation that someone who only depleted their pack once per day, for example.

 

If your ultimate goal is to use no gas for your commute, get a Volt or a BEV, either first-generation or second-generation. If your ultimate goal is to use no gas for your commute, get a volt, either first-generation or second-generation. However, the fusion has some great features that the Volt doesn't offer, such as adaptive cruise control, lane keep assist, blind spot warning with cross-traffic alert, active park assist, rain sensing wipers and many more. As was previously mentioned, the Ford EV application appears to be one of the best outside of Tesla. MyFord Mobile has its bugs, but overall it is pretty impressive.

 

Can you please share your list of pros and cons that you started comparing the Fusion & the Volt?

Edited July 30, 2015 at 06:14 PM by Hybridbear

[geohec]

@murphy:  Thanks for the clarification on the tax credit info.  I was afraid of that.  I read it both ways but hoped for the larger number.

 

@TAZ:  I thought about a leaf but I'm not a fan of the looks of them.   Also, I know a few people that said it is little stressful some times due to the limited EV range.  The other weekend I was at a BBQ where someone at the party had to ask the owner if they could plug in to their house outlet in the garage so that they could make it home.  Also, people parked close to the house had to move their cars so the leaf could reach. I would hate to be in that position.  For me to consider a true EV, it would need to have minimum range of 150 miles for me to consider and have some peace of mind.

 

My needs will be 90% commuter and 10% family (4) vehicle.  I plan too keep this vehicle for the life of the vehicle if possible.  Yes, the Volt is a compact car with assumably a comfortable driver position but could be used in a pinch for short drives with the family.   At this time, after incentives I could get a new base model Volt for a monthly payment (7yr) of only about $80 more a month than I currently spend on gas ($220/mo).   Assuming all EV miles with very little gas.

 

But having a more roomy Fusion with nice comfortable driving experience and advanced driving features is definitiely an option to me.  The 2016 Fusion Titanium could be a little cheaper than a new volt after some wheeling and dealing at the dealership.  From a monthly cost of gas and electricity, I estimate it would cost me about $50 more per month than a new Volt.  

 

As for used vs new, I prefer a new vehicle because I'd like the latest technology and some comfort features (since it's been 10 years since I've bought a vehicle) but if I found a gently used 2015 fusion then I might consider it for the right price.    A gently used volt isn't an option right now because personally don't like the look of the rear.  A little too box-like for my taste.

 

@Hybridbear: I did think about the increased charges and increased degredation of the battery.   Thank you for confirming that it is a major item to consider over the life of the vehicle.  For my driving needs, I'd be degrading a Fusion battery twice as fast as new volt battery based on my 50 mile round trip commute.   That is something to definitely consider.   As for my list, I'll be hopefully finishing tomorrow when I have more free time.

 

Thanks again everyone.  This conversation has been very helpful.

Edited July 30, 2015 at 08:01 PM by geohec

[Taz]

The reason I went with a PHEV (plug-in hybrid) is because I didn't want range anxiety any more. That is why I bailed out of the lease with the Leaf because in cold MN winters, I spent too many winter days trying to find a charging option just to make it home. When you are totally dependent on electric, it can be an issue.

 

While I would still buy an EV at some point, assuming my commute and life were more stable, it might make a lot of sense. Then again if SoCal electric prices keep going up, it can cost more than gasoline per mile. As it is now, I absolutely need to avoid paid commercial chargers to be significantly ahead using electrons over hydrocarbons. I built a very detailed spreadsheet where I track the typical costs at charging stations vs. gas prices to see what makes the most economic sense.

 

The good/bad of the Energi line is there aren't significant changes over the years. That is why I looked for used as there were no changes that really mattered to me on a 2015 vs. my 2014. My car only had been used about 300 EV miles so I know the batteries didn't have a lot of recharge cycles either. When my wife saw it she thought it was brand new. It was perfect in every way.

 

One thing to keep in mind as well, in most states you still have to pay the sales tax on the entire purchase amount. So even if you got a credit on your taxes later, you still paid sales take on the 5-7k or so. This is another reason why leasing or buying used can save even more money.

[Eric4539]

Hi geohec!

 

I live in the Central Valley and qualified for another $2000 cash rebate for purchasing a plug-in hybrid.  You know about the $1500 California rebate so that's good.  Check for anything else that you might qualify for (Sacramento may not have anything else) but I'm glad I researched further.

 

https://www.smud.org/en/residential/environment/plug-in-electric-vehicles/PEV-resources/

 

You will find the $4007 federal tax credit information on that site.  There is a list of all vehicles and it's easier to just look at a chart than to calculate it.

 

Good luck with your research but doesn't it all to come down to what do you look better driving? Just kidding.  :)

[geohec]

@Eric4539 - thank you for the information.   You're my new best friend.   Your post lead me to another $1000 rebate from my local municipality.    The specific link for additional incentives were at "Driveclean.ca.gov" for those of us that live in California.

 

It's more paperwork but I'll do 30 minutes of paperwork for $1000 any day of the week.    Thanks again!

 

p.s. thanks for the link on the fed incentive.   I'd actually had been there before but the webpage layout was not clear and I missed the plugin-hybrid tab on the right.   

 

Now back to my research on the new Fusion to compare to the new Volt.

[stevedebi]

...

 

One thing to keep in mind as well, in most states you still have to pay the sales tax on the entire purchase amount. So even if you got a credit on your taxes later, you still paid sales take on the 5-7k or so. This is another reason why leasing or buying used can save even more money.

You pay the taxes anyway, on the monthly lease payment. But if you don't buy the car at the end of the lease, there is no further sales taxes.

[Hybridbear]

The Fusion hasn't really been improved from 2013 to 2016... In fact, features have been taken away. The 2013 has more features than the 2014+. The only features not available on the 2013 are a heated steering wheel, cooled front seats & inflatable rear seatbelts IIRC.

 

The 2013s had a Lifetime Summary & MPGe displays which were removed in later years. The 2014 lost those displays. The 2015 lost the gallons used display from the Trip Summary. The 2016 lost the EV miles range prediction from the battery icon & all instances of gallons of gas used. For these reasons I wouldn't buy anything other than a 2013...

[geohec]

Hybridbear: That is interesting information.   I guess these items were cost cutting items? Interesting...

 

On another note, at your request I posted my personal pros and cons list and my comparison spreadsheet with dimensions, features, etc but it is a PDF because the forum wouldn't allow me to attach an excel file.   I posted this list on the "Competing Products" thread on this forum. 

 

The info was based on limited info available on the volt and a quick review of the fusion on the ford website.

[Russael]

Hybridbear: That is interesting information.   I guess these items were cost cutting items? Interesting...

 

I think it was more likely because Ford was getting far too many complaints/questions about those items.  You can even float through a variety of threads here where individuals were complaining about the battery range estimate and thinking their HVB was already defective.

 

In October/November, you'll see an influx of complaints of reduced estimated range due to colder weather, and then a ton of people thinking their battery is defective again.

 

In retrospect, it probably was a cost cutting measure, but mostly on the dealership side where techs won't have to deal with people insisting their car has a problem when in reality, it doesn't.

 

As far as the other screens being removed... no idea, unless Ford was getting complaints about those too.  I did see one youtube video where a dude compared a Hybrid Fusion against an Energi Fusion in hybrid mode and found that the gallons of gas used on the Energi was far more inaccurate than the Hybrid one.

Edited August 2, 2015 at 02:10 PM by Russael