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2016 Chevy Volt vs Ford Fusion Energi - My comparison


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63 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Hybridbear

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:30 PM

I would suggest looking at the overall costs if that is important to you. Perhaps you will save enough on the purchase of a Ford, over a new Volt, that while it might not quite get the range in EV mode alone, that the minimal gas you might need to buy might be more than offset by possibly a higher overall cost of the Volt.


Excellent advice!

Edited by Hybridbear, 10 August 2015 - 06:30 PM.

Current vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic (The Snow Queen on MFM)

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm (Elektra on MFM)

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Previous vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

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#42 OFFLINE   geohec

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 10:08 PM

I would suggest looking at the overall costs if that is important to you. Perhaps you will save enough on the purchase of a Ford, over a new Volt, that while it might not quite get the range in EV mode alone, that the minimal gas you might need to buy might be more than offset by possibly a higher overall cost of the Volt.

 

One other thing to look at as well is insurance. ..... In addition most accidents happen within a few miles of home, and since most pure EVs don't venture far from home, they seem to be involved in more accidents per mile driven according to my agent.

 

Yes, I am trying to look at overall costs.   You're suggestions are great.

 

The insurance info is something that I did not consider.   I thought it would cheaper because I read somewhere that my insurance company (CSAA - west coast) offers 10% discount for EV, so in my mind I thought I'd get a good rate but I guess that depends on the specific vehicle you end up buying.  It's something I could have easily overlooked.   Luckily, I have a little time to cosider these additional factors.

 

Thanks again!  :2thumbs:



#43 OFFLINE   Taz

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:19 AM

EV costs may vary a lot between insurance companies. I have USAA and they are cheaper than anyone else along with the best service for cars. Even then I was shocked how much my hybrids cost more than my "normal" cars. Don't forget all the other discounts you might be able to get. On my Avalon, I had the pre-collision detection system and that got me a discount. Not enough to offset the cost of the option but every little bit helps.


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#44 OFFLINE   Blastphemy

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 10:08 AM

I was shocked to discover that the insurance rate on my $43k 2015 Ford Fusion Energi was almost exactly the same as what I'd been paying for my $80k 2014 Cadillac ELR. Good advice to check insurance to make sure it's not cutting into your savings on a more efficient vehicle.



#45 OFFLINE   openair

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 12:56 PM

Here in Ontario, Canada insurance for plug in hybrids is cheaper than straight hybrids and hybrids are cheaper than straight gas cars. I would have paid less insurance for a 2014 fusion hybrid than I did on my 2001 f150 and I pay even less than that on my energi. Including paying extra for a waiver of depreciation on the 2014s.

Edited by openair, 11 August 2015 - 12:59 PM.


#46 OFFLINE   Hybridbear

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 06:32 AM

EV costs may vary a lot between insurance companies. I have USAA and they are cheaper than anyone else along with the best service for cars. Even then I was shocked how much my hybrids cost more than my "normal" cars. Don't forget all the other discounts you might be able to get. On my Avalon, I had the pre-collision detection system and that got me a discount. Not enough to offset the cost of the option but every little bit helps.

When we replaced the Prius with the Focus Electric our insurance went up by about $100 every 6 months. Geico does not offer any discounts for hybrids or EVs. They lump the Focus Electric in with the gas Focus. The gas Focus is mostly driven by younger drivers & thus it has a higher risk associated with it. Even with that increase, we still found that Geico was the cheapest insurance. We recently switched to Esurance. Geico had a significant premium hike for all of MN due to the major hail storms we've had the last few summers. Our insurance was going up about $75 per 6 month policy period. Because of that we switched to Esurance. I again shopped around & found that no one else was as affordable as Geico & Esurance. Companies like State Farm or Farmers were double to triple the cost of Geico & Esurance. Both my wife & I have no tickets/accidents on our record, but we are in our 20s still which makes our insurance more expensive.


Edited by Hybridbear, 12 August 2015 - 06:33 AM.

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Current vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic (The Snow Queen on MFM)

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm (Elektra on MFM)

315692.png

 

Previous vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#47 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 06:41 AM

When we replaced the Prius with the Focus Electric our insurance went up by about $100 every 6 months. Geico does not offer any discounts for hybrids or EVs. They lump the Focus Electric in with the gas Focus. The gas Focus is mostly driven by younger drivers & thus it has a higher risk associated with it. Even with that increase, we still found that Geico was the cheapest insurance. We recently switched to Esurance. Geico had a significant premium hike for all of MN due to the major hail storms we've had the last few summers. Our insurance was going up about $75 per 6 month policy period. Because of that we switched to Esurance. I again shopped around & found that no one else was as affordable as Geico & Esurance. Companies like State Farm or Farmers were double to triple the cost of Geico & Esurance. Both my wife & I have no tickets/accidents on our record, but we are in our 20s still which makes our insurance more expensive.

USAA has good rates. You have to be affiliated with military service to join USAA, but if your parents were ever in the military I believe you qualify.


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#48 OFFLINE   Taz

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:57 AM

With respect to USAA, serve for a few years and you will save the rest of your life...  I can't tell you how much they have saved me over the last 20 years. Car loans, insurance, mortgage, etc. It has probably been $2-3k every year, if not more. A pretty huge benefit that my children get now.

 

Hands down they are the best insurance company and bank I've ever dealt with. I think they just opened up the bank side of the operation to non-vets. Might be worth looking into for some of you. Most of the benefits of a CU but with a lot more products.


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#49 OFFLINE   Rexracer

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:21 AM

Took your suggestion and adjusted my comparisons.   I used a rating system that gave weight to the features that were important to my particular needs.  The Fusion and the Volt are really close in my rating system, which is why I'm going to definitely test drive both before making any decisions.   The Volt got an 86/100 and the Fusion got an 83/100 on my rating system.

 

I also compared the Focus as recommended by a few individuals on the forum because it might fit my needs.  The Focus was hard to compare because it is a BEV and it is hard to put a weight or score for having peace of mind for not worrying about have to do longer trips than you expect.  I had to re-do the rating system to adjust for the difference in the vehicles.  The Focus scored aboubt 10 points less than the Volt but it's probably a lot closer.   If I were to get the Focus, then the cost savings might make it possible for me to keep my existing vehicle (Rav4 with 150k) for longer trips. The money I save could also go toward maintaining both my vehicles, insurance, etc.   Decisions, decisions.....

 

I have a couple of months to sit on this information as I wait for my no obligation, pre-ordered Volt to arrive in mid October so that I can compare these vehicles with a test drive.

 

Anyway, I thought I'd share the revised spreadsheets in case you guys were interested.  Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

Good information to compile ahead of time. A couple things I noticed. The Fusion Hybrid/EV system has a  longer Warranty, I thought it was 10 year/100k mile warranty? Everyone, has that changed or do I just have the numbers wrong?

 

I also assume you plan to install a lV 2 charger, as you may not get the Volt battery full all the time without it (13 hour charge time on 110v). Add that into your costs

 

What do you mean by Battery Depredation?

 

Most importantly, I know this is subjective, but come on, The Volt looking BETTER then the Fusion?!?!? The Volt looks like a dressed up econo box, while the Fusion looks like an Aston Martin!!!! ;-)

 

Though giving 10 points to appearance while also giving cost only 10 points. I would have cost worth at least 20 points, and overall cost (purchase price, insurance cost, operating costs (fuel/electricity).


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#50 OFFLINE   geohec

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:38 PM

What do you mean by Battery Depredation?

 

Most importantly, I know this is subjective, but come on, The Volt looking BETTER then the Fusion?!?!? The Volt looks like a dressed up econo box, while the Fusion looks like an Aston Martin!!!! ;-)

 

Though giving 10 points to appearance while also giving cost only 10 points. I would have cost worth at least 20 points, and overall cost (purchase price, insurance cost, operating costs (fuel/electricity).

Maybe it was hard to read but it is supposed to say Battery Degradation.

 

In my situation, my roundtrip commute is 50 miles.   With the Volt, I can do a round trip on one charge.   With the Fusion, I'll end up charging twice a day, once at home and once at work.   So overtime, the Fusion would wear down twice as fast and on top of that I read on the forums here to expect somewhere between 10-15% degradation for about 40k miles which means more gas over time.   In addition, I live where summers average typically in the 90's - 100 degrees, so I know this may also play into degradation.  in reviewing the volt forums, battery degradation didn't seem to be as big an issue, so because of those two items that is why I scored it that way.

 

As for the looks, I really do like the look of both and would be happy with both.   Actually, I accidently flipped the two scores so the fusion was supposed to be a 10 and the Volt was a 9.   Not a big deal though because they are essentially a tie when I factor everything.   So the test drive will really be the decision maker for me.   And as for cost, I think I can get a Fusion cheaper and with better financing so that is why I have it scored that way.

 

Update on the insurace conversation that was going on.   After calling CSAA on the west coast, they quoted me the following:

 

2016 Volt LT - $778 per year (MSRP $34k)

2016 Fusion Energi Titanium - $851 per year (MSRP $39K, though I hope I can negotiate down to $34K)

2015 Focus Electric - $788 per year (MSRP 30K)

 

The insurance company said these were rough estimates and that using VIN numbers is more precise because it will capture all the safety features.   Anyway, that is the update on the insurance. 


Edited by geohec, 14 August 2015 - 07:17 AM.

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#51 OFFLINE   yakers

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:40 AM

Not addressing insurance issues (we turned in our 2012 Focus FFE for a 2015 Fusion Energi & our insurance went down a bit, don't know why, 21st Cen Ins) I did drive the new 2016 Volt and 2016 Energi before leasing a 2015 Energy on sale. I have heard complaints about the new Volt but I did like it, better handling & acceleration and some other changes. I liked the older models looks but that is totally subjective. Ultimately i (we) liked the ride of the Energy, the price & packages. I do wish it had more electric range although the 20-25 mile range should work out well for us. I think GM realized that if you have a (mostly) electric car you can have strong acceleration. Our Focus electric was seriously fast, like a Focus performance model, too bad we only could cover 80 miles, but it was like a little Tesla. It seems Ford has not featured electric acceleration in the Fusion but it has a great ride. Early days, 1 week & 300 miles but so far very satisfied with the Energi.



#52 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:11 AM

Not addressing insurance issues (we turned in our 2012 Focus FFE for a 2015 Fusion Energi & our insurance went down a bit, don't know why, 21st Cen Ins) I did drive the new 2016 Volt and 2016 Energi before leasing a 2015 Energy on sale. I have heard complaints about the new Volt but I did like it, better handling & acceleration and some other changes. I liked the older models looks but that is totally subjective. Ultimately i (we) liked the ride of the Energy, the price & packages. I do wish it had more electric range although the 20-25 mile range should work out well for us. I think GM realized that if you have a (mostly) electric car you can have strong acceleration. Our Focus electric was seriously fast, like a Focus performance model, too bad we only could cover 80 miles, but it was like a little Tesla. It seems Ford has not featured electric acceleration in the Fusion but it has a great ride. Early days, 1 week & 300 miles but so far very satisfied with the Energi.

 

I got my 2016 Volt 8 days ago and 900 miles thus far (I drive a lot of miles), and bottom line is that I think the Energi does a better job at amenities and back seat space, but the Volt has far better range and that was the primary reason for my switch.  We had two 2013 Fusion Energis on insurance, swapping one for the 2016 Volt brough the 6-month premium down by $8.


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#53 OFFLINE   Hybridbear

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:23 PM

Not addressing insurance issues (we turned in our 2012 Focus FFE for a 2015 Fusion Energi & our insurance went down a bit, don't know why, 21st Cen Ins)

We have Geico & insurance for our Focus Electric is quite pricey. We also had esurance & found the same thing. Geico & esurance don't differentiate out the Focus Electric from the gas Focus models. The gas Focus is typically driven by younger drivers who have more accidents/claims, thus the Focus falls into a higher risk bracket for the insurance companies.

Our Focus electric was seriously fast, like a Focus performance model, too bad we only could cover 80 miles, but it was like a little Tesla.

I would agree completely. I am very disappointed that Ford has done nothing to improve the Focus Electric since 2012, in fact, they've taken content away. Your 2012 had rain sensing wipers & Homelink. I wish Ford would take the HVB & electric motor from the Focus Electric & put it in the Fusion body. The Focus is just too small a car for our needs... The Volt is too. We carry 4-5 adults in the car at least twice a week. We drive very few miles with only 1 person in the car.

 

I got my 2016 Volt 8 days ago and 900 miles thus far (I drive a lot of miles), and bottom line is that I think the Energi does a better job at amenities and back seat space, but the Volt has far better range and that was the primary reason for my switch.  We had two 2013 Fusion Energis on insurance, swapping one for the 2016 Volt brough the 6-month premium down by $8.

That's interesting that a brand new 2016 Volt costs less to insure than a 3 year old Energi with a current value less than half what the Volt costs.


Current vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic (The Snow Queen on MFM)

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm (Elektra on MFM)

315692.png

 

Previous vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#54 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 05:49 AM

Electric acceleration comes from 1) a strong motor and 2) a lot of electrical power.  It might seem like the electric motor in the Energi would be the limiting factor, but I would bet that it's more a limitation of the relatively small battery's ability to provide the high levels of power output needed for strong acceleration. For a given battery technology, the main factor in how much power a battery can deliver in a short amount of time is the overall capacity of the battery. This is the reason that all of the performance options of the Model S are only availble with the largest battery. The Focus Electric, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt etc. all have on thing in common relative to the Energi vehicles.... a MUCH larger battery.  By contrast the anemic Plug-In Prius has a much smaller battery and has proportionally less Electric acceleration as a result. 



#55 OFFLINE   Hybridbear

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 08:41 AM

Electric acceleration comes from 1) a strong motor and 2) a lot of electrical power.  It might seem like the electric motor in the Energi would be the limiting factor, but I would bet that it's more a limitation of the relatively small battery's ability to provide the high levels of power output needed for strong acceleration. For a given battery technology, the main factor in how much power a battery can deliver in a short amount of time is the overall capacity of the battery. This is the reason that all of the performance options of the Model S are only availble with the largest battery. The Focus Electric, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt etc. all have on thing in common relative to the Energi vehicles.... a MUCH larger battery.  By contrast the anemic Plug-In Prius has a much smaller battery and has proportionally less Electric acceleration as a result. 

You are correct. The Energi allows a maximum discharge rate of ~68 kW with a full HVB. As the HVB SOC decreases the maximum discharge rate also decreases. The Focus Electric has a maximum discharge rate of 110 kW.

 

The Energi traction motor is rated at 88 kW, but it will never put out all that power in EV mode because it can't get that much power from the HVB. When the ICE is on at maximum acceleration you may see close to that power output by the electric motor.


Current vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium - White Platinum Metallic (The Snow Queen on MFM)

2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm (Elektra on MFM)

315692.png

 

Previous vehicles

2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE x2

252543.png167422.png


#56 OFFLINE   ClaveMan

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:33 AM

Also, until the battery is depleted (after 50-odd miles), the Volt never needs to engage the gas engine for any reason, even under full acceleration, heavy A/C use, and/or steep inclines. Driving my Fusion Energi requires a lot of patience as compared to my Volt if I don't want to use gas.

Forget brake regeneration charging for a sec.

 

The 2017 Volt has a new "Regen on Demand®" paddle you have to pull to get the car to charge when coasting. The Volt'ees are all excited about it on their forum.  Yuck.

 

My 2010 Honda Insight somehow does this without me having to put my coffee down to grab a paddle. It has a computer that switches to charging the battery through the wheels & gravity turning the engine (no gas is fed). The driver isn't even aware.  Happens dozens of times per minute on flat roads in traffic.

 

I assume the Energi system can harness a transfer of momentum (coast on flat road) or gravity (down hill off the gas but not on the brakes) when car is coasting? The idea is the gas is cut off to the engine. Then some kind of clutch rotates the engine cam shaft and the wheels turn it (reverse of normal) which turns the rotor/stator on a generator which charges the battery?


 


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#57 OFFLINE   ClaveMan

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:37 AM

..I thought I'd share the revised spreadsheets in case you guys were interested.  Thanks again for the suggestion.

Hee hee.. I love spreadsheets when buying a car. More factors and math the better.

A psychology professor once said to my class that there are generally two ways of decision making:

1. Thinking (person who does a big spreadsheet to buy a car)
2. Emotion (OMG that RED car is perfect. I'll take it!)

So true..

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#58 OFFLINE   ClaveMan

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:42 AM

I looked at a 2017 Volt briefly. Dealers seem to have them in stock now.

I want the most safety you can buy. The FFE has the most I have seen anywhere (Mazda is close) outside a Euro car).
The Volt doesn't have any pre-collision braking (in GM lingo the 2017 Chevy Volt pre-collision feature is "Late Availability" which means it will be in the 2018 model.)


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#59 OFFLINE   ClaveMan

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:48 AM

It's not that the gas is more efficient, it's that the Fusion Energi doesn't have the capacity to go up a hill with A/C running at full in 100-degree heat when the battery has less than about 20% left. If I can get home on 100% electricity, it's never more efficient to use gas, especially if the only reason is because the car is struggling to maintain all systems on just the battery. The Volt doesn't have this issue.

Does the 2017 FFE have Fords "Auto Start-Stop" feature. My 2010 Honda Insight stops the A/C about 75% on hot days at stop lights when the auto stop engages. I put it neutral and rev the engine at stop lights in order to bear 100+ heat.

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#60 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:51 AM

I looked at a 2017 Volt briefly. Dealers seem to have them in stock now.

I want the most safety you can buy. The FFE has the most I have seen anywhere (Mazda is close) outside a Euro car).
The Volt doesn't have any pre-collision braking (in GM lingo the 2017 Chevy Volt pre-collision feature is "Late Availability" which means it will be in the 2018 model.)

 

The 2016 model does not have the braking but I've seen an owner of a 2017 post that his does have it and it worked well in an "unintended" test.










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