Upgrading to L2 Need Advice on Plug Types

[bdginmo]

Ok, so I have an electrician coming out Friday to give me an estimate on the work. I already spoke with him on the phone and we talked about a few options. I know the Energi has a max load of 240v/16A. That means I'd be fine running a 12awg wire and putting a 6-20 receptacle in my garage. But, I want to future proof my installation and use plug types that you guys think are most common (even for appliances other than an EVSE possibly). Interestingly, my motivation for going L2 is more driven by the fact that I want to start using GO times and have the car preheated when I leave rather than decreasing my charge time.

 

1. What are your thoughts on the 6-20 plug type? It would require only a 12/2 wire. I like the TurboCord (even though it's pricey) and it uses a 6-20 plug. But, this limits me to a 20A circuit. Could I run a 10awg or 8awg wire to help future proof me a little?

 

2. What about the 14-30 plug type? This is the typical dryer hook up with hot-hot-neutral-ground wires so I get dual voltage 240/120 for appliances that may need both voltages. It requires a 10/3 wire. What are your thoughts on EVSE's that use this plug type?

 

3. What about the 14-50 plug type? This requires (typically) a 6/3 wire. Again, it's dual voltage 240/120 and is a common RV hookup plug. I believe this is also the typical plug type chosen by most Tesla owners, no? The wire is rather large though and I'm not sure what the conduit requirements are for that.

 

4. Should I request a GFCI breaker? The dual-pole 50A GFCI breakers are expensive!

 

Fortunately I have a gas dryer, furnace, and water heater so my 200A service and panel has plenty of room for expansion. If I did the 6-20 or 14-30 I could run the branch circuit from the main panel. If I go 14-50 I was thinking maybe running a 100A subpanel to the garage with the 14-50 branch circuit off of that. This was actually what the electrician recommended over the phone (without seeing anything yet though) for maximum future proofing for higher load BEVs like the Tesla. He has done Tesla EVSE installs before, but nothing for the Fusion Energi yet.

Edited July 12, 2016 at 01:56 AM by bdginmo

[murphy]

The 14-50 is a 50 amp receptacle that gets derated to 40 amps (80%) for continuous duty.  6/3 wire is required for a 50 amp circuit.  That is what Teslas built before the front end refresh use.  The refresh model of the Tesla has a 48 amp charger which requires a 60 amp circuit.  The Tesla HPWC (High Power Wall Connector) requires a 100 amp circuit to use its full capacity.  Future proofing is fine but the future keeps changing. 

 

I originally bought a Leviton 16 amp EVSE for my Energi.  It uses a 6-20 receptacle.  I eventually upgraded to a Leviton 40 amp EVSE that uses a 6-50 receptacle.

 

Run the largest size wire that you can afford.  Copper is expensive so the length of the run may be the deciding factor.  Instead of installing one circuit, consider adding a 100 amp sub-panel in the garage.  Whatever circuit type you need can be wired to the sub-panel.    My power panel is at the opposite end of the house from the garage and required a 72 foot run. 

[Timewellspent]

My power panel is at the opposite end of the house from the garage and required a 72 foot run. 

 

This is what is holding me back from upgrading :banghead:

[bdginmo]

Fortunately for me any wire run from my main panel will be 10 feet or less and will probably only require drilling one hole.

[flyingcheesehead]

Ok, so I have an electrician coming out Friday to give me an estimate on the work. I already spoke with him on the phone and we talked about a few options. I know the Energi has a max load of 240v/16A. That means I'd be fine running a 12awg wire and putting a 6-20 receptacle in my garage. But, I want to future proof my installation and use plug types that you guys think are most common (even for appliances other than an EVSE possibly). Interestingly, my motivation for going L2 is more driven by the fact that I want to start using GO times and have the car preheated when I leave rather than decreasing my charge time.

 

1. What are your thoughts on the 6-20 plug type? It would require only a 12/2 wire. I like the TurboCord (even though it's pricey) and it uses a 6-20 plug. But, this limits me to a 20A circuit. Could I run a 10awg or 8awg wire to help future proof me a little?

 

2. What about the 14-30 plug type? This is the typical dryer hook up with hot-hot-neutral-ground wires so I get dual voltage 240/120 for appliances that may need both voltages. It requires a 10/3 wire. What are your thoughts on EVSE's that use this plug type?

 

3. What about the 14-50 plug type? This requires (typically) a 6/3 wire. Again, it's dual voltage 240/120 and is a common RV hookup plug. I believe this is also the typical plug type chosen by most Tesla owners, no? The wire is rather large though and I'm not sure what the conduit requirements are for that.

 

4. Should I request a GFCI breaker? The dual-pole 50A GFCI breakers are expensive!

 

Fortunately I have a gas dryer, furnace, and water heater so my 200A service and panel has plenty of room for expansion. If I did the 6-20 or 14-30 I could run the branch circuit from the main panel. If I go 14-50 I was thinking maybe running a 100A subpanel to the garage with the 14-50 branch circuit off of that. This was actually what the electrician recommended over the phone (without seeing anything yet though) for maximum future proofing for higher load BEVs like the Tesla. He has done Tesla EVSE installs before, but nothing for the Fusion Energi yet.

 

 

From what I've seen in my shopping, by far the easiest plug type to find EVSEs for is the 14-50. Also, you should be able to find adapters for 14-50 to smaller outlets if needed, but they don't go the other way - I have a portable L1/L2 from EV Institute that uses the L6-20; it came with 5-15 and 14-50 adapters but I had to build adapters myself to go to the 6-50 and L6-30 outlets I use when I'm out and about.

 

I second the subpanel idea. Copper is expensive, but so is labor! Make one run to the garage for a subpanel, and anything else you do in the future will be WAY cheaper. I have a 3-car garage and I'll probably just go ahead and do two 14-50s right away when I do it later this year, but someday I'll have kids and be using that third spot, so it'll be good to not have to wire all the way back to the main panel when I want to add a third outlet.

[bdginmo]

The electrician came today to look things over. I'm still waiting for him to email me a quote. I have instructed him to bid a 100A sub panel (though I'll probably put in a much smaller main breaker for now), #2 wire to the panel, rigid metal conduit as needed, one 20A circuit with a 6-20 receptacle dropped off the panel, one 30A circuit with a 14-30 receptacle dropped off the panel. 

 

I do take the 14-50 plug type advice seriously though. However, with the sub panel it is easy enough to change out the breaker(s) and plug type as needed and that's something I'm comfortable doing myself. I noticed the Clipper Creek 14-30 models are a little cheaper than the higher amperage 14-50 models. I doubt I'll get a full BEV like the Tesla so I'm going to punt on the 50A circuit for now. Like I said, with the sub panel it's easy to switch out if I change my mind.

[bdginmo]

The estimate came in at $550. I've asked them to pencil me into their schedule. I'll post some pictures when it's all installed.

[chuck1011212]

You have probably already purchased a charge cable for your car, but if not, consider this....

I bought the Clipper Creek 14 50

https://www.amazon.com/ClipperCreek-HCS-40P-Charging-Station-14-50/dp/B013VNIAEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469225265&sr=8-1&keywords=hcs40p

 

for my Fusion for the simple fact that it pumps out as many amps as possible for my car now and ideally any car in the future.  ALSO it is portable and is the power supplied at more places than anywhere else.  Take your charge cable with you on a road trip and plug into most any RV outlet.

It is quite expensive, but much more flexible than one with a different power outlet requirement.  As others have stated, you can downgrade the cable from 14 50 to something smaller if you want or need to.  Plus this item would probably be easier to resell if you sell or wreck your Fusion and go to a non plugin car.

[bdginmo]

That is a good point about 32 amp model with the 14-50 plug...resale value is higher and it can be used at more places. The problem is that it is $200 more than the 16 amp model with the 14-30 plug.

[bdginmo]

The electrician came by this morning and got everything installed. He did a 100A subpanel to the garage with a #2 wire from the main panel. There is a 100A breaker in my main panel that protects the subpanel circuit. He then hung a 14-30 receptacle off the subpanel protected by a 30A breaker. He cut out some of the drywall in my garage and ran that #2 feed behind the wall so the install looks really sharp. I just have to tape and mud the drywall patching to get it all polished up. I decided to go with the 14-30 plug to keep the EVSE cost down and because that is the newer grounded dryer plug standard so it's a pretty common plug type. The bill for the electrician was $550.

 

I went ahead and bought the Clipper Creek LCS-20P with the 14-30 plug. This model is limited to 16A@240v which is the maximum charge rate the FFE will accept. I did my first charge with it and everything seemed to work as expected. I'm pretty excited to try out the GO times this winter. Based on everyone's feedback here it works better on a 240v circuit. And of course, I can charge my car faster!

 

Once I get the drywall touched up I'll try to remember to post some pictures.

[murphy]

You can also use GO times to precondition with the air conditioner, unless your garage is air conditioned in which case there would be no point.  I've seen the thermometer in my garage get to 120°.

[bdginmo]

I took a few measurements today. The voltage across the hot legs in my sub panel was right at 240v with no load. I plugged the charger in and got 239v across the hot legs with a 13.7A load. My meter isn't that great, but I suspect these readings are pretty close. The last full charge I did took right at 120 minutes. Assuming these readings stay constant throughout a full charge I estimate it could take as little as 6.7 kwH of energy. I typically get 5.3-5.4 kwH until it switches to hybrid mode and maybe another 0.2-0.3 kwH until the hybrid battery meter is about 50%. So let's say on average I pull 5.6 kwH from a full charge (the highest I've gotten is 5.8-5.9 kwH). That means the charge efficiency with L2 for me is ~83%. That is inline with what larryh and others have mentioned in other threads. Earlier I estimated a charge efficiency with L1 at ~73%. I estimate that I'll save $15-20 at most in energy costs per year with the L2 charger.

 

What amp loads are you guys seeing with L2? I saw one poster in another thread that was seeing 14.3A but didn't provide a voltage reading.

 

P.S. I've had the car for about 13 months and it has 18,000 miles on it. I have seen little if any HVB degradation.

Edited August 8, 2016 at 03:04 AM by bdginmo