Residential Charging Stations -- Now what?

[meyersnole]

Edit 4/4/13: Looks like all the links are now broken... will take me some time to fix this! Arrrrrrggggggggg. For some reason the site turned it into HTML code. I Thought of an easy way to fix that, but since they shortened the links that is what is now listed at the real link.  Not going to mess with it tonight.

 

Edit 4/3/13: rspray found a L2 Charger for $595 on sale this month http://www.fordfusio...rements/?p=2410

 

Edit: 3/11/13: I have my new car in the garage for the weekend and am living with the L1 charger. So far this is working out well. Still only a short time, but not once have I had a problem where the car does not have enough charge to get me where I want to go. So, you may want to try the included charger before going through this expense. I may still go forward with the L2 charger, but for now I am not in any rush to get this done.

Edit: 3/20/13: Started adding in people who have installed which charger and link to the post for comments.

=================

I am pretty sure I am not the only one going through this so I thought I would post a topic here of what I think I have learned and hopefully some people will chime in with their thoughts.

Okay, so the car is on order and I would like to have Level 2 charging station when my Fusion energi rolls into my garage.

My dealership has a Leviton charging station out front but knew little about it other then I am suppose to go to bestbuy and work with the geek squad to get a site survey and schedule an install. Looking at the site I see they are charging near list price for these things.

How to prepare the site & checklist
http://www.advancede...ng Handbook.pdf  (cant find this link again)

so far I have just skimmed this document, but what I have read could be real helpful to those who are thinking about tackling this project themself.


List of Interesting sites:

Ford site on the topic is here: http://www.ford.com/...ectric/evready/

Bestbuy Leviton chargers (don't see the Ford logo'ed one) http://www.bestbuy.c...8;st=leviton ev
Looks like they charge a pretty penny for the survey as well: ($99): http://www.bestbuy.c...erm=ev chargers pluggedin's post on geeksquad
List of all their chargers: http://www.bestbuy.c...vehicle charger

Leviton site with the different models: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37741&minisite=10251

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_kk_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aelectric+vehicle+charging+station+level+2&keywords=electric+vehicle+charging+station

Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical/h_d1/N-5yc1vZarcd/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-electric%2Bvehicle%2Bcharging%2Bstation/h_d2/Navigation?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&catalogId=10053&Nu=P_PARENT_ID&langId=-1&storeId=10051&primarySearchOnly=true&omni=c_Electrical&searchNav=true

Lowes: http://www.lowes.com/Search=electric+vehicle+charging+station?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=electric+vehicle+charging+station#!

An interesting overhead charger (have not found the price yet, or where to buy): http://evsellc.com/e...-stations.shtml (There are multiple charger there that are commercial, but I was interested in the one labeled residential)

Hints / Tips:

• From murphy -- I just modified my charger installation to have an on/off switch. The charger draws 10 watts while waiting to be put to use.
  • 10 watts x 24 hours x 30.4 days / 1000 = 7.3 kwh per month
  • That's one less phantom load wasting power in my house.
• Also from murphy -- if you are going to hire an electrician it is a good idea to hang your charger first. Follow link for full tip.

Thoughts:

First thing you should do is check with your local power company to see if they have any programs available. If they do please post the program and information. I will add a section to the first post here for reference.

Bestbuy seems like an expensive way to go. Bestbuy does the site survey (for hire) then you have an electrician install and you buy the charger at list price. But this is probably the only way to get the Ford charger (blue and white plastic cover over the Leviton model 3PM charger).

The home improvement stores have the chargers at a cheaper price, but you are going to have to figure out the logistics yourself. If the power company route does not pan out I am leaning toward this solution. I like dealing with a local store rather than amazon even if it costs me a few more dollars (but at this time it looks like the cost is about the same).

Type of charger:

You are going to get a Level 1 (120V) charger with your car. If you don't mind a long charging time, this is the easiest solution. No additional wiring in your garage, nothing to buy.

If you go after a L2 charger, you will find you need to make some choices. Brand, length of cable, amperage.

The car will only accept 16a (3.8 Kw) charging (I am told) but you can safely use the larger 30a (7.7 Kw chargers) you just will not get a quicker charge.

Brands: (Make suggestions of Brands I am missing that are worth considering and I will add)

Leviton site with the differnt models: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37741&minisite=10251 (Installed by murphy, shaggy314, FusionEnergi (32a 25ft)

Ford Charger (Leviton) -- Through best buy or try directly through Mr Electric to save $99. (installed by pluggedin

GE WattStation: http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/Dispatcher?REQUEST=PRODUCTS&famid=9404&lang=en_US (Installed by Scooter80

Schneider EVlink: http://www.schneider-electric.us/sites/us/en/solutions/energy-efficiency/electric-vehicles/residential-charging-solutions.page
Siemens VersiCharge: http://www.industry....g-stations.aspx (installed by: Peter Kiener

Eaton Residential Charging Station: http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/ElectricalDistribution/ElectricVehicleChargingSolutions/index.htm
EVSE (overhead charger): http://evsellc.com/ev-charger-stations.shtml These people seem out of business. I sent an email a long time ago, so I tried to call. The msg says they are in shutdown until Jan 1. Happy holidays.

ClipperCreek: http://www.clippercreek.com/products.html  (Installed by: Mr Fusion

Special Programs to be aware:

Federal Tax Credit

Looks like they have brought back the federal tax credit now available for EV charging stations (Retroactive)
http://www.chargedev...arging-stations (By Charlie Morris on Sun, 01/20/2013 - 12:30pm EST)

The credit allows businesses and consumers to claim 30% of the cost of both hardware and installation. The tax incentive is capped at $30,000 per property for businesses, and $1,000 for individuals. The best news of all? It’s retroactive, so if you installed a charging station in 2012, you can get a nice little windfall on this year’s taxes.


California

(Thanks to TechOps for this one)
Let me add a bit more specific info on California. Here, PG&E has a special rate plan for electric vehicles, E-9. This is a Time-of-Use (TOU) rate plan, meaning that the cheapest power you'll get is between midnight to 7am.

There are two flavors of this plan. E-9A will use your existing meter, and your home and EV charging will fall under this rate. E-9B uses a dedicated meter (which you will need to have an electrician install), and the house stays on its existing meter with existing rate plan. E-9B is slightly cheaper.

They have a web site set up specifically for this topic; see http://www.pge.com/electricvehicles/. You can even log in with your residential account, and they will use real information and estimates to calculate how much you will pay for EV power.

One thing to keep in mind is that PG&E is in the middle of an application process to do away with the E-9 rate plan, and create a new EV rate plan, with rates that are approximately twice as much. This is expected to happen in late spring 2013, so if you are thinking of getting on one of these plans (and potentially installing a meter), I suggest you do it *now*, as you will be grandfathered on E-9 until at least the end of 2014.

Maryland

Tax credit for 20% of charger up to $400. Qualified EVSEs must be placed in service on or after July 1, 2011, but before Jan. 1, 2014. (Taylorjd) http://energy.maryla...portation/evse/


North Carolina

Pluged In Program https://www.progress...plugged-in.page

I applied the other night, but this program is almost over so I may have missed the boat on this. Will update when I have more information.

Texas

Austin (from Shaggy314)
https://www.austinen...ug-In Partners/

More thoughts later...

Please post suggestions on how to organize this information and what to add. As I figure things out I will update as well. Thank you in advance for your help.

Edited April 12, 2013 at 02:31 AM by meyersnole

[murphy]

Unless you make a lot of trips from home to somewhere else every day you probably don't need the 240 volt charger.  I hardly ever leave the house after 9 PM and don't leave before 8 AM the next morning so there is 11 hours for the car to charge overnight.  And unlike a full electric car if the battery runs low the engine is available.  My plan is to use the supplied 120 volt charger for a while to see if I need the high power one.  That said I just bought the parts and wire to install a 120 volt outlet near the car because the existing outlets are too far from the left front of the car.  Fortunately when I bought the house 34 years ago, when copper was cheap, I ran a dedicated circuit to the garage using 10 gauge wire so it will be easy to tap into that circuit.

 

Also the engine needs to be brought to full operating temperature at least once a week or condensation will form inside resulting in water in the oil.  It needs to be at full temperature to evaporate any water that has condensed into the oil.

Edited January 28, 2013 at 01:43 PM by murphy

[shaggy314]

I posted this somewhere else, but here is the info I found out about the Ford in car charger: The "120-volt convenience charger" cable is Ford part# FM5Z10B689A and would run $492 plus tax from a local Ford dealer (I may try to mail order one to avoid tax).

 

I was considering getting this instead of a full on L2. I'd mount it on the garage wall, leave the other in the car for away charging as needed. I think your Ford isn't working with you very well as I thought the 'partner' deal is supposed to be better than just list. I'd skip the who Best buy survey ($200 is a rip off IMHO) as you'd think the electrician could do it as a part of the install. I have a 240 line for the dryer, so charge or dry but not both and I should be just fine.

 

IIRC it was $1200-$1400 to get the Ford logo's charger installed. I'm doubting, with regenerative breaking that I'd ever come home with a super low charge. Looking at the pricing, why bother getting Best Buy Geek Squad involved at all? They aren't bringing anything to the table that a trusted Electrician wouldn't. I'm an Angie's List member... I mean a charged for site survey? Bah on Best buy. A Ford logo (hidden in my garage) doesn't make any sense for the money.

Edited January 28, 2013 at 05:40 PM by shaggy314

[pluggedin]

I have looked on the Blue Oval Forum and on the C-Max Energi Forum to see if I could locate someone who documented their experience of how their Ford dealership led them through the install of their charger. I could find no such posting.

 

If anyone knows of a posting like that please let us know where it is.

Edited January 29, 2013 at 01:09 AM by pluggedin

[TechOps]

Let me add a bit more specific info on California. Here, PG&E has a special rate plan for electric vehicles, E-9. This is a Time-of-Use (TOU) rate plan, meaning that the cheapest power you'll get is between midnight to 7am.

 

There are two flavors of this plan. E-9A will use your existing meter, and your home and EV charging will fall under this rate. E-9B uses a dedicated meter (which you will need to have an electrician install), and the house stays on its existing meter with existing rate plan. E-9B is slightly cheaper.

 

They have a web site set up specifically for this topic; see http://www.pge.com/electricvehicles/. You can even log in with your residential account, and they will use real information and estimates to calculate how much you will pay for EV power.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that PG&E is in the middle of an application process to do away with the E-9 rate plan, and create a new EV rate plan, with rates that are approximately twice as much. This is expected to happen in late spring 2013, so if you are thinking of getting on one of these plans (and potentially installing a meter), I suggest you do it *now*, as you will be grandfathered on E-9 until at least the end of 2014.

[meyersnole]

Unless you make a lot of trips from home to somewhere else every day you probably don't need the 240 volt charger.  I hardly ever leave the house after 9 PM and don't leave before 8 AM the next morning so there is 11 hours for the car to charge overnight.  And unlike a full electric car if the battery runs low the engine is available.  My plan is to use the supplied 120 volt charger for a while to see if I need the high power one.  That said I just bought the parts and wire to install a 120 volt outlet near the car because the existing outlets are too far from the left front of the car.  Fortunately when I bought the house 34 years ago, when copper was cheap, I ran a dedicated circuit to the garage using 10 gauge wire so it will be easy to tap into that circuit.

 

Also the engine needs to be brought to full operating temperature at least once a week or condensation will form inside resulting in water in the oil.  It needs to be at full temperature to evaporate any water that has condensed into the oil.

 

I was wondering a little bit about that myself (do I need the 220V charger?).  I guess we will learn a little more about this as members start getting their cars and we have some real world experience.

 

I have heard with the Volt that the computer wil ensure that you go through a tank of gas over a period of time, wonder if the Fusion will ensure the same?

[meyersnole]

I posted this somewhere else, but here is the info I found out about the Ford in car charger: The "120-volt convenience charger" cable is Ford part# FM5Z10B689A and would run $492 plus tax from a local Ford dealer (I may try to mail order one to avoid tax).

 

I was considering getting this instead of a full on L2. I'd mount it on the garage wall, leave the other in the car for away charging as needed. I think your Ford isn't working with you very well as I thought the 'partner' deal is supposed to be better than just list. I'd skip the who Best buy survey ($200 is a rip off IMHO) as you'd think the electrician could do it as a part of the install. I have a 240 line for the dryer, so charge or dry but not both and I should be just fine.

 

IIRC it was $1200-$1400 to get the Ford logo's charger installed. I'm doubting, with regenerative breaking that I'd ever come home with a super low charge. Looking at the pricing, why bother getting Best Buy Geek Squad involved at all? They aren't bringing anything to the table that a trusted Electrician wouldn't. I'm an Angie's List member... I mean a charged for site survey? Bah on Best buy. A Ford logo (hidden in my garage) doesn't make any sense for the money.

 

 

After looking at my post above, I may have been a little bias against the bestbuy site survey, maybe if someone actually goes through the process or contacts them about the process they can report back their expecience with pros and cons? I would be happy to edit my first post based on experience.

[meyersnole]

Let me add a bit more specific info on California. Here, PG&E has a special rate plan for electric vehicles, E-9. This is a Time-of-Use (TOU) rate plan, meaning that the cheapest power you'll get is between midnight to 7am.

 

There are two flavors of this plan. E-9A will use your existing meter, and your home and EV charging will fall under this rate. E-9B uses a dedicated meter (which you will need to have an electrician install), and the house stays on its existing meter with existing rate plan. E-9B is slightly cheaper.

 

They have a web site set up specifically for this topic; see http://www.pge.com/electricvehicles/. You can even log in with your residential account, and they will use real information and estimates to calculate how much you will pay for EV power.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that PG&E is in the middle of an application process to do away with the E-9 rate plan, and create a new EV rate plan, with rates that are approximately twice as much. This is expected to happen in late spring 2013, so if you are thinking of getting on one of these plans (and potentially installing a meter), I suggest you do it *now*, as you will be grandfathered on E-9 until at least the end of 2014.

Great information... I have added this to a section in the first post. Thanks!

[pluggedin]

Let me add a bit more specific info on California. Here, PG&E has a special rate plan for electric vehicles, E-9. This is a Time-of-Use (TOU) rate plan, meaning that the cheapest power you'll get is between midnight to 7am.

 

There are two flavors of this plan. E-9A will use your existing meter, and your home and EV charging will fall under this rate. E-9B uses a dedicated meter (which you will need to have an electrician install), and the house stays on its existing meter with existing rate plan. E-9B is slightly cheaper.

 

They have a web site set up specifically for this topic; see http://www.pge.com/electricvehicles/. You can even log in with your residential account, and they will use real information and estimates to calculate how much you will pay for EV power.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that PG&E is in the middle of an application process to do away with the E-9 rate plan, and create a new EV rate plan, with rates that are approximately twice as much. This is expected to happen in late spring 2013, so if you are thinking of getting on one of these plans (and potentially installing a meter), I suggest you do it *now*, as you will be grandfathered on E-9 until at least the end of 2014.

Or you could do what I did a couple of years ago...even outside of California.

 

Our local power company and Feds were offering incentives to install solar so I started looking around and attended a seminar put on by several solar companies in our area. One of them was a leasing company and what I heard intrigued me.

 

Long story short I leased instead of bought my solar system. I was paying Equal Pay payments of $142 a month for electricity and once I signed my lease my payments went to $121 a month for the next 20 years and they will never go up. No matter what they power company does.

 

My payments went down because I chose to put $2,000 down and, in essence, I bought down my payment down by putting cash up front. I could have invested $0 however. The leasing company gets to use my tax credits.

 

The leasing company also owns the system and they will maintain it for the next 20 years. If something falls out of the sky or the wind damages one of the panels, they will replace it. If the inverter fails, they will replace it...and so on. To date the system has been trouble free.

 

If I sell the house, the system and the payments go to the new owner, if they want it. But who won't want guaranteed payments? If they don't, I price the system into the house, pay it off and the leasing company will come and remove the system.

 

I can buy the system any time in those 20 years. The price is prorated and a payoff table is published in my contract.

 

Leasing of solar systems is nation wide so if you live somewhere that solar makes sense I recommend you look into it.

[Mr. Fusion]

I have heard with the Volt that the computer wil ensure that you go through a tank of gas over a period of time, wonder if the Fusion will ensure the same?

I saw a video from Ford on Youtube that said it will burn fuel if the gas is 18 months old. You can get around the burn by only leaving a gallon or so in the tank.

[meyersnole]

Found an article where Retroactive federal tax credit now available for EV charging stations.  Added a Federal Tax section to the first post.

[pluggedin]

Found an article where Retroactive federal tax credit now available for EV charging stations.  Added a Federal Tax section to the first post.

Excellent job, meyersnole, I have already printed the form and instructions and placed them in my 2013 tax folder. Thank you. Love the way you are keeping this information together.

Edited January 29, 2013 at 09:29 PM by pluggedin

[shaggy314]

Austin Energy (City utility) customers can get up to $1500 or 50%, whichever is lower, rebate against a L2 charger install... so out went my plans for a second L1 cable. I'm getting the Leviton 16 Amp from Amazon.com with the mounting kit ($750 + $80) and paying an electrician to run a 20 amp live to it. Since I'm an Angie's list member, I might even get that done for $300 or less. If the federal tax credit (30%) and city rebate both come in, it's a no brainer to get it. Now I just need Ford to get off it's duff (what's 'duff' in Spanish since it's Hermosillo) and get me a VIN so I can start this going.

Edited January 31, 2013 at 05:04 AM by shaggy314

[pluggedin]

Austin Energy (City utility) customers can get up to $1500 or 50%, whichever is lower, rebate against a L2 charger install... so out went my plans for a second L1 cable. I'm getting the Leviton 16 Amp from Amazon.com with the mounting kit ($750 + $80) and paying an electrician to run a 20 amp live to it. Since I'm an Angie's list memeber, I might even get that done for $200 or less. If the federal and city credits both come in, it's a no brainer to get it. Now I just need Ford to get off it's duff (what's 'duff' in Spanish since it's Hermisillo) and get me a VIN so I can start this going.

Bajar el culo means 'get off your butt'. Not quite as delicate as duff but it will do. 

 

I'm happy this worked out so well for you in your state...no such luck in AZ.

[meyersnole]

Austin Energy (City utility) customers can get up to $1500 or 50%, whichever is lower, rebate against a L2 charger install... so out went my plans for a second L1 cable. I'm getting the Leviton 16 Amp from Amazon.com with the mounting kit ($750 + $80) and paying an electrician to run a 20 amp live to it. Since I'm an Angie's list memeber, I might even get that done for $200 or less. If the federal and city credits both come in, it's a no brainer to get it. Now I just need Ford to get off it's duff (what's 'duff' in Spanish since it's Hermisillo) and get me a VIN so I can start this going.

Thanks Shaggy!  Texas is on the board (Added to the first post). Lots of good information their website.

 

Let us know how the install goes, and any experiences with your rebate.

[meyersnole]

Found another cool document and added it to the first post.

 

 

How to prepare the site & checklist

http://www.advancedenergy.org/transportation/evse/Charging%20Handbook.pdf

 

so far I have just skimmed this document, but what I have read could be real helpful to those who are thinking about tackling this project themself.

[shaggy314]

Bajar el culo means 'get off your butt'. Not quite as delicate as duff but it will do. 

 

I'm happy this worked out so well for you in your state...no such luck in AZ.

TY, for the translation!

 

AZ isn't left out totally, there is currently a 30% tax credit from the federal government for Level 2 chargers with installation! So while you have to wait until next year's taxes, this helps with the charger too. Remember you'll be waiting for the $3750 tax credit from the car anyway.

 

Check: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/state

[pluggedin]

TY, for the translation!

 

AZ isn't left out totally, there is currently a 30% tax credit from the federal government for Level 2 chargers with installation! So while you have to wait until next year's taxes, this helps with the charger too. Remember you'll be waiting for the $3750 tax credit from the car anyway.

 

Check: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/state

Thanks shaggy314, I made note of this too. Maybe meyersnole can add this to his list as well.

[meyersnole]

Thanks shaggy314, I made note of this too. Maybe meyersnole can add this to his list as well.

Its prego (its in there - added it the other day) in the section labeled Special Programs to be aware:

 

Cool! Spell check seems to be working now!

[Tucker]

Found an article where Retroactive federal tax credit now available for EV charging stations.  Added a Federal Tax section to the first post.

 

 

Do you know how much?

[shaggy314]

30% of the cost with installation as a TAX credit, so it is worth more than an income deduction as the credit will offset more income's taxes; however, you have to wait until you file your taxes for the year after you buy it to get it. (edited for grammar)

Edited February 1, 2013 at 03:27 AM by shaggy314

[meyersnole]

Do you know how much?

 

From the article:

 

The credit allows businesses and consumers to claim 30% of the cost of both hardware and installation. The tax incentive is capped at $30,000 per property for businesses, and $1,000 for individuals. The best news of all? It’s retroactive, so if you installed a charging station in 2012, you can get a nice little windfall on this year’s taxes. 

 

Capped at $300 as mentioned by Shaggy.

[FusionEnergi]

Irs tax form 8911, its about 30% of the units total cost

[meyersnole]

Anyone install one yet? I am going to wait until I have a VIN, build date, or something before I start the process. But I was hoping to learn something from the forum about the process.

 

Anyone care to share?

[murphy]

See post #22 under Batteries & Charging --> L1 charging amperage requirements

for my recommendation of how to install the Leviton L2 charger and a picture of the installation.

That thread started wandering off topic and I didn't realize it was the wrong thread until after the post was done.