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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Total PHEV newbie with a few questions. Please help.


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   inaninstant

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:45 AM

Hello everyone, my wife and I have finally come around to the notion of going hybrid or plug-in hybrid. We are hoping the first replacement will be by my current gas guzzling car, she may opt for the standard hybrid for the extra trunk space. I have a question that I've tried to search for, and even watched a few videos to better understand, but I'm still having a hard time getting my head around the energi's driving modes and the role the extra battery plays given various scenarios.

I drive, on average, about 650 miles per week. 3 days consist of 190 mile round-trip commutes. The rest of the week consists of sub-20 mile local errands. We have a level 2 charger at work that is free for employees. My primary question has to do with the role of the additional battery on the energi.

I understand that it's capable of 20 miles in pure EV mode, which will be great for my local errands and such but with the bulk of my miles stemming from my commute, will the additional battery from the energi model provide a more EV biased supplementary role over a standard hybrid in long commute scenarios like mine or is it purely limited to EV mode with a cap of 20 miles?

Thanks SOOOOO much in advance for helping me better understand this!










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#2 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:07 AM

I'll assume your drive is city streets to get to an expressway, then expressway to near your work location, then more city streets when you leave the expressway.

 

In that scenario drive the city streets at both ends in EV Now mode and the Expressway in EV Later mode  EV Later forces the use of the engine.

 

You are not going to get 20 EV miles in the Pocono mountains in the winter time because the battery is less efficient and the heater draws a max of 5 kW.  Energy used to heat the cabin is not available for propulsion.

 

You also will not get 20 EV miles on the Turnpike at 70 mph since the drag increases with the square of the speed.

 

EV Later is basically the same as the hybrid version of the car.



#3 OFFLINE   jj2me

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:39 AM

The FFH has a 1.4 kWh high voltage battery (HVB).  The FFE reportedly has 1.5 kWh of its 7.6 kWh battery reserved for hybrid use when you've used up the "EV charge" (the 20-miles/5.6 kWh extra charge).  So that's about a wash, nothing extra supplementary in that case.
 
The FFE's manually-entered EV-Later mode (another kind of hybrid mode, which is entered at any remaining state of charge [SoC]) preserves the charge percentage at the value when it is entered.  E.g., you have 80% charge and you switch to EV-Later and drive 100 miles, you'll see you still have 80% +/- a bit.  So nothing extra supplementary there, either.
 
A corner case of EV-biased supplementary gain: If you have long downhills, the larger FFE HVB can regenerate more (I believe there was a report on one of these forums of somebody recharging the whole battery going down Pike's Peak).
 
You probably know this already, but on highways you should switch to EV-Later, and toggle to EV-Now or EV-Auto (EV with earlier firing up of the ICE for power needs) for lower-speed driving conditions. An FFE owner has more opportunities to degrade the HVB because they have more control to do bad things, like 3C discharging by driving continually at 60 mph in EV mode.
 
When you say "additional battery," you mean "additional battery capacity," as each vehicle has a single HVB, just of different sizes. And each has a 12V battery.


#4 OFFLINE   jeff_h

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 05:28 PM

For the OP's use case (3 days of really long commutes), seems like a Fusion Hybrid (rather than an Energi) would be the better move. The additional trunk space would also be a benefit for his wife's use when driving the car.


2013 Fusion Titanium Energi Deep Impact Blue

 

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#5 OFFLINE   jj2me

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:39 PM

For the OP's use case (3 days of really long commutes), seems like a Fusion Hybrid (rather than an Energi) would be the better move. The additional trunk space would also be a benefit for his wife's use when driving the car.

 

Seems so to me also, even figuring on the free (company-charged) 60 miles of "fuel" per week, which is equivalent to about 1.4 gallons/week in the hybrid.  At the 91 octane requirement, that comes out to somewhere around $4/week, or less than $200/year.  The FFE's need for fiddling between EV modes and need for charging (will both drivers buy into those inconveniences?) seems to override that small free fuel benefit, particularly so if the hybrid can be purchased at a lower price.



#6 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:41 PM

One factor in the decision is the tax credit. Depending on your situation it might actually be cheaper to get the Energi than the Hybrid.


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#7 OFFLINE   muzicman61

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:00 AM

I don't believe the FFE has sold as well as Ford had hoped.  Look around for 2017 FFEs that were Ford owned.  You'll pick them up for half their sticker price with low mileage.  I know my local dealer has at least 5 of them on their lot.  That's a much greater savings than the tax credit would get you.

 

Here's one from my local dealer that had 3000 miles back in June and was almost identical to the one i purchased. Mine had a few more features and 4500 miles.  Although the add states it was pre-owned i know for a fact it was only titled to FMC.

 

http://www.mikemurph...a6p0su8hr209820


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#8 OFFLINE   4cylinder

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:37 AM

One factor in the decision is the tax credit. Depending on your situation it might actually be cheaper to get the Energi than the Hybrid.

 

Yep, brand new Energis in the Detroit area also have more generous dealer incentives than equivalent hybrid or gasoline models (equipment-wise), besides the tax credit.

 

The difference is even more extreme on lightly used cars. My 2017 Energi Titanium listed for $22,998 with 7800 miles and almost all options. At the same dealer, a 2017 gasoline SE with fewer options and 8200 miles was going for about $24k, while a 2017 Hybrid Titanium with the same options as my car and 13,000 miles was also going for $24k. Since used cars do not qualify for tax credits, that seriously eats into first-year depreciation on the Energi model. I also suspect that the small trunk hurts resale value.



#9 OFFLINE   muzicman61

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 02:07 PM

In an odd way I actually like the smaller more compact trunk.  But then I have no kids and I'm the only one who drives it.  Things don't roll around all over the place.  Open the trunk and your items are right there.  Great for groceries as long as your not shopping for a small army. :)

 

If I have to haul something larger I use the wife's Escape or my Nissan Frontier.


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#10 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

I have brought 8 foot long 2x4s home in the trunk.  Fold down the back seats and lay the passenger seat back as far as it will go.  Slide the boards through the slot.



#11 OFFLINE   jsamp

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

You can even get 10 footers in there, but only a couple as they have to go under the dash on the passenger side foot well.



#12 OFFLINE   TTABONE19

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:13 AM

I’ve had both. Loved my 2013 FFH and did what the other fellow said. Found a 2017 FFE Ford Exec car and picked it up for 18k with 17k miles. Plus I got 8 for my FFH with 104k. Win win. Love the FFE. A little different ride with the extra weight.
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#13 OFFLINE   inaninstant

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 06:42 AM

Thanks for all of the information folks! Based on your feedback, I think the standard hybrid may indeed fit our overall objectives a little better than the energi. I was also leaning towards the FFE because of the lightly used pricing. It's amazing to me that a 15 or 16 with under 30k miles can be had fairly easily for under 15k. I ran some quotes and it turns out the hybrid is cheaper for me to insure (Geico) so the reduced premium cost would perhaps offset the hybrid's decreased MPG during my infrequent shorter trips, plus I'd get a full trunk. Thanks again everyone!


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#14 OFFLINE   jsamp

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:58 AM

I would agree with the others that a FFH would be more appropriate with your usage scenario.

 

Technically, you get 3/4 of a trunk with the FFH, and 1/2 of a trunk with the FFE vs the ICE Fusion:

 

ICE: 16 cu ft

Hyb: 12 cu ft

Ener: 8.2 cu ft.










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