Once the charged HVB is drained, it's stuck in hybrid mode (not really)

[jeff_h]

I found something new today, others may have already known this and I'm late to the party, who knows.

 

I thought that once the main HVB was drained and transitioned to hybrid mode, that is how it stayed until the HVB was connected to power again for charging.  But that is not what happened today.

 

We took a drive across Shenandoah National Park, so going east-to-west (or vice versa) across the mountain there is a long and winding road upward for about 5 miles or so... then cross Skyline Drive and it's about 5 miles of long and winding downhill down the other side.  The HVB was long gone, had used that up about 20 miles before we got to cross the mountain so it was all hybrid and up up up the hill... then on the way down I was doing regen as much as I could and once the hybrid battery filled up, that fuel economy gauge that goes from 0-120 on big EV and 0-60 on hybrid mode, well it switched back to 0-120 as I regen'd down the hill and by the time I got to the bottom it was at 4 miles... and on the way home, it was on 9 miles by the time we got to the bottom of the hill.

 

I'm wondering if others have also experienced this?

 

 

[ckrsFusion]

I have seen it once as well.  Long hill and it went up to two miles.

[meyersnole]

That is good to know... have not gone to the mountains yet this year, but we usually make a trek during the Summer.

[jeff_h]

That is good to know... have not gone to the mountains yet this year, but we usually make a trek during the Summer.

 

OK good so this can be a heads up, don't stay in EV-later mode (for whatever reason) during a trip like this, as there will be a chance to do some nice regen on those long downhills.

[Hardp]

I'm not sure that its the HVB battery (the gets charged by plug-in) that's regen'ing.  I think it's now in hybrid mode and, with any hybrid, when you coast or brake, the battery powers the vehicle recharges.  Is there only one battery (aside from the 12-volt) or is the HVB sectored or are there two batteries.  This is my first plug-in but I've had 3 hybrids (two of them Fords) before and what you describe is what happens normally with a hybrid.  I asked the dealer this very Q and he said once the plug-in energy is depleted it cannot be regen'ed until you next plug it in.

[frbill]

I'm not sure that its the HVB battery (the gets charged by plug-in) that's regen'ing.  I think it's now in hybrid mode and, with any hybrid, when you coast or brake, the battery powers the vehicle recharges.  Is there only one battery (aside from the 12-volt) or is the HVB sectored or are there two batteries.  This is my first plug-in but I've had 3 hybrids (two of them Fords) before and what you describe is what happens normally with a hybrid.  I asked the dealer this very Q and he said once the plug-in energy is depleted it cannot be regen'ed until you next plug it in.

No the battery is the battery. There is software that limits 1.1kwh for hybrid use after the EV range goes to zero. If you have a long enough regen (going down a mountain) it should charge the battery above the EV threshold as there is room for the energy. At least that is my understanding of it.

[murphy]

No the battery is the battery. There is software that limits 1.1kwh for hybrid use after the EV range goes to zero. If you have a long enough regen (going down a mountain) it should charge the battery above the EV threshold as there is room for the energy. At least that is my understanding of it.

That is correct.  Somewhere on the forum is a description of someone coming down from the top of Pike's Peak (14110 feet) and putting something like 8 miles back into the battery.

[jeff_h]

That is correct.  Somewhere on the forum is a description of someone coming down from the top of Pike's Peak (14110 feet) and putting something like 8 miles back into the battery.

 

No that was my first post in this thread, I got up to 9 miles back into the HVB on my return trip.  But I do remember the post you're thinking of, it's around here somewhere and I think someone said that they went down quite a long downhill and recharged almost all (if not all) of the HVB.

 

But for anyone that says 'once the HVB is gone, it's gone'... that's what I first thought but I found out differently, as I noted when starting this topic back in July.  If a salesman tells you no-way no how tell him to come see me and we'll make a big fat bet on whether it does or not and then drive that same route.

[Fat Fusion]

My salesman told me of a lady who emails him every week telling him about her exploits.  She claims she put 30 miles back in the battery going down a big grade in the rockies.

[SD Diver]

No the battery is the battery. There is software that limits 1.1kwh for hybrid use after the EV range goes to zero. If you have a long enough regen (going down a mountain) it should charge the battery above the EV threshold as there is room for the energy. At least that is my understanding of it.

The other exception is when you are near home and the EV+ mode engages. Let's you dip into the reserve.

[TX NRG]

That is correct.  Somewhere on the forum is a description of someone coming down from the top of Pike's Peak (14110 feet) and putting something like 8 miles back into the battery.

IIRC, it was FusionDad and he regened until the HVB was full and showed something like 43 miles available on the display, but it was depleted after the usual 20-25 miles on level ground.

[SteveEnergi]

IIRC, it was FusionDad and he regened until the HVB was full and showed something like 43 miles available on the display, but it was depleted after the usual 20-25 miles on level ground.

 

Everyone's probably already aware of this but the HVB mileage is only an estimate based on your driving history.  That would account for the initial 43 miles displayed, but actual miles were 20-25.  Ford rates the battery at 21 miles and that's probably "real" miles (no climate) as opposed to the estimated that we see most of the time.  Of course, people are getting more than 21 miles on the battery but they're probably putting around town going no faster than say 30 mph and coasting everywhere.

 

Steve

[ctwomey]

Just another confirmation: I often kill the HVB after a day of driving around, and then hitting an 800' hill on the way home.  But almost always, as heading back down that hill to sea level, I charge up the hybrid portion to full, and add a few miles to the HVB for pure EV mode.

 

(it concentrates the mind, knowing that gradual breaking saves you a bit in charge costs that night...)

[kacalapy]

If in understand these posts then it seems like breaking regenerates the battery charge way way faster than plugging into the wall with 120v

 

Is this true?

[jeff_h]

If in understand these posts then it seems like breaking regenerates the battery charge way way faster than plugging into the wall with 120v - Is this true?

 

Yes, regen braking can put a lot back into the HVB on a hill, as there is one hill about 1/2-3/4 of a mile in my town with probably 5-6% downhill grade where a steady regen will increase the estimated HVB distance remaining by 3 miles.  It would take about an hour (maybe a little less) to get that much with a 120V charger - but it's really apples & oranges unless you plan to install a dyno in your garage. :)

[Quatro40]

Guys I've been recharging my Energi's battery while driving, in a typical 20 min drive to work and back home I am able to add 20%, the other day I drove 34 miles from NJ to NY and my charge level was 36% and when I arrived I had 76%.

 

This is what I am doing.  Don't let the EV battery drain below 20%, put it on ev later mode.  Now the trick is time your regen braking, by switching it out of ev later mode and putting it auto mode, then when you are going to accelerate tap it twice to bring it back to evlater mode getting about 48 mpg by driving this way.  When I get the batter to be in the 90% then I only drive electric until it drops to 20% and I start the cycle again.  

 

When you brake or coast in evlater mode the energy that is captured only goes to the allotted hybrid mode storage of the battery.

 

By switching it to EV Auto or EV all that energy goes back to charge the long range or EV section of the battery, thus fooling the software and the care self charges while you coast and break.

 

So to recap start 2 taps (Evlater engaged) when about to break or coast 1 tap for Auto mode, then 2 taps to evlater.  Try it.

 

I live in an apartment building and there is no charging stations, unless I go to the dealer or my brothers house, so this comes in very handy.

[jeff_h]

When you brake or coast in evlater mode the energy that is captured only goes to the allotted hybrid mode storage of the battery.

 

By switching it to EV Auto or EV all that energy goes back to charge the long range or EV section of the battery, thus fooling the software and the care self charges while you coast and break.

 

Yep this has been my normal action for some parts of the daily commute, where it appears it will build the amount in the larger portion of the HVB.  I've found that it can be built back up slowly when doing longer regen braking by checking the percentage noted when switching back to EV-later; but in some cases where the regen duration would be short or the effect slight, it either keeps the same percentage when going back to EV-later or even loses a little - which is why I keep it only for times when I feel confident that it will increase the charge level.

[expresspotato]

Just get someone to pull your car with a rope:

Edited May 2, 2015 at 01:18 AM by expresspotato

[stevedebi]

 

Guys I've been recharging my Energi's battery while driving, in a typical 20 min drive to work and back home I am able to add 20%, the other day I drove 34 miles from NJ to NY and my charge level was 36% and when I arrived I had 76%.

 

This is what I am doing.  Don't let the EV battery drain below 20%, put it on ev later mode.  Now the trick is time your regen braking, by switching it out of ev later mode and putting it auto mode, then when you are going to accelerate tap it twice to bring it back to evlater mode getting about 48 mpg by driving this way.  When I get the batter to be in the 90% then I only drive electric until it drops to 20% and I start the cycle again.  

 

When you brake or coast in evlater mode the energy that is captured only goes to the allotted hybrid mode storage of the battery.

 

By switching it to EV Auto or EV all that energy goes back to charge the long range or EV section of the battery, thus fooling the software and the care self charges while you coast and break.

 

So to recap start 2 taps (Evlater engaged) when about to break or coast 1 tap for Auto mode, then 2 taps to evlater.  Try it.

 

I live in an apartment building and there is no charging stations, unless I go to the dealer or my brothers house, so this comes in very handy.

 

I have found that while you can do that, the actual MPG achieved is less than if you just left it in EV Later, at least for my 2014 C-Max Energi.  The ICE has to work harder to recover the energy you "save" into the HVB.

[flyingcheesehead]

This is what I am doing.  Don't let the EV battery drain below 20%, put it on ev later mode.  Now the trick is time your regen braking, by switching it out of ev later mode and putting it auto mode, then when you are going to accelerate tap it twice to bring it back to evlater mode getting about 48 mpg by driving this way.  When I get the batter to be in the 90% then I only drive electric until it drops to 20% and I start the cycle again.  

 

The problem with that is, the energy conversion processes (kinetic -> electric aka regen, and electric -> kinetic EV driving, and combustion -> electric recharging) combined are only around 65-70% efficient (IIRC - LarryH has the actual numbers). You are better off simply driving in hybrid mode, as it's more efficient to go directly from engine to wheels than it is to go engine->generator->battery->motor->wheels because there are losses at each step.

 

The reason that hybrid mode increases efficiency over a regular ICE-only powertrain is that you can regenerate kinetic energy to electrical energy in the first place, as well as operate the ICE at the most optimal speeds. However, it's best to minimize the amount of energy conversion that takes place.