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Battery Degradation


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28 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   mikieg

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:20 AM

I realize 5.6 kwh is considered to be the non-hybrid portion, but mine was only 5.5 kwh when I drove it off the lot. So yeah, you basically have a like-new HVB still. Much of the same for me. I get 5.3 or 5.4 kwh at 57,000 miles so I've seen very little degradation as well. Like you I baby the HVB at least in terms of temperature. I do have over 400 cycles on it though. 

 

Absolutely incredulous, that's the only word that comes to mind. I can't believe that you have nearly twice as much mileage as me yet most of your battery capacity. I contacted a law firm that is looking for plaintiffs to start a class action suit against Ford. Maybe that will get their attention.


Edited by mikieg, 07 November 2018 - 09:21 AM.









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#22 OFFLINE   Davidoo

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 03:36 PM

Absolutely incredulous, that's the only word that comes to mind. I can't believe that you have nearly twice as much mileage as me yet most of your battery capacity. I contacted a law firm that is looking for plaintiffs to start a class action suit against Ford. Maybe that will get their attention.

 

I agree with you.  I have a 2017 with 19,000 miles and I only get 4.9 per charge.  Yes, I live in Phoenix and it's hot 10 months a year, but still, when I got the car, they never told me anything about the electric portion of the car would deteriorate so much, so quickly.  They never gave me any hints such as not charging when it is hot or freeway driving.  Would anyone accept this for a ICE only vehicle and find out that each year your gas mileage will go down, or the horsepower of the engine will lose 20% after 2 years, but they won't do anything about it?  The other side of this is that now, with cooler weather here and no a/c most of the time, I still can get almost 30 miles on a charge if I drive gently.  And I'm a fan of Ford and never buy anything else.  I'm sure this isn't exclusive to them for EVs.  My father retired from Ford and I have worked there before and I wouldn't buy anything else.  Just odd to me that it is acceptable to "lose" part of your engine or power ability so fast in less than 20,000 miles.  



#23 OFFLINE   4cylinder

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:03 AM

'17 here, built in October '16 and bought with 7,800 miles, now at 17,000 miles. Battery still behaves like-new and the Detroit area does get extreme heat AND cold.

 

Unfortunately I'm guessing Ford has put some fine print disavowing responsibility for abnormal battery degradation, and given that the car is technically still perfectly usable it'll be hard to build a case. 



#24 OFFLINE   jsamp

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 11:48 AM

Absolutely incredulous, that's the only word that comes to mind. I can't believe that you have nearly twice as much mileage as me yet most of your battery capacity. I contacted a law firm that is looking for plaintiffs to start a class action suit against Ford. Maybe that will get their attention.

 

I wish you luck, I really do, but I don't hold high hopes for you.  There was a huge discussion starting back in 2015 about this. Read a couple of threads like this one:

https://www.fordfusi...iles-horrible/ They also went the route of class action lawsuit, but we never heard the outcome.

Someone did get their battery replaced see:

http://fordcmaxenerg...nder-warranty/ 

But most others who tried the same were not so lucky an only gained frustration.  Maybe you can contact users 'mipmapped' or 'dlb92' to find out more.

 

Good luck.


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#25 OFFLINE   mikieg

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 06:00 AM

I wish you luck, I really do, but I don't hold high hopes for you.  There was a huge discussion starting back in 2015 about this. Read a couple of threads like this one:

https://www.fordfusi...iles-horrible/ They also went the route of class action lawsuit, but we never heard the outcome.

Someone did get their battery replaced see:

http://fordcmaxenerg...nder-warranty/ 

But most others who tried the same were not so lucky an only gained frustration.  Maybe you can contact users 'mipmapped' or 'dlb92' to find out more.

 

Good luck.

 

I read the second link and reading down the page I saw responses identical to mine, how all Ford does is respond with "there are no codes therefore there is nothing wrong with the battery", the exact response that's on my latest service order. Posters there are complaining that they are seeing 4.1kwh capacity while mine is down to 3.8.

 

Like I've said before, I would expect normal degradation, but not 47% in three years.



#26 OFFLINE   jsamp

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:40 PM

I realize you see it as 47% loss in range, but in reality it is not that big, and Ford uses the whole battery capacity in the calculation.  So you get 3.8kWh whereas a new battery is 5.6.  5.6-3.8 is a 1.8kWh loss:

 

1.8 is a 32% loss from 5.6 (plug-in portion of battery)

1.8 is a 24% loss from 7.6 (full battery capacity)

 

So you are still above 75% of battery capacity.  Even Nissan would only hold to a 70% warranty.

 

Do I think this is acceptable? no, because Ford could have done better at battery design/management.  But they never would have even entered the EV market if they knew they would be held to 100% capacity for 8 years/100K miles.

 

Did you contact the lawyer listed on page 1 of this thread?  they were looking into it 2 years ago.  What happened?


Edited by jsamp, 09 November 2018 - 01:41 PM.

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#27 OFFLINE   mikieg

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:48 PM

I realize you see it as 47% loss in range, but in reality it is not that big, and Ford uses the whole battery capacity in the calculation.  So you get 3.8kWh whereas a new battery is 5.6.  5.6-3.8 is a 1.8kWh loss:

 

1.8 is a 32% loss from 5.6 (plug-in portion of battery)

1.8 is a 24% loss from 7.6 (full battery capacity)

 

So you are still above 75% of battery capacity.  Even Nissan would only hold to a 70% warranty.

 

Do I think this is acceptable? no, because Ford could have done better at battery design/management.  But they never would have even entered the EV market if they knew they would be held to 100% capacity for 8 years/100K miles.

 

Did you contact the lawyer listed on page 1 of this thread?  they were looking into it 2 years ago.  What happened?

 

Not sure about you, but a 32% loss after only 2.5 years seems like a lot to me.


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#28 OFFLINE   danjayh

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 06:36 PM

:( I bought a 2015 Fusion Energi with 40k on it last week, and it's been pretty disappointing. Until I started driving it I had no idea about the thermal management & related capacity loss issues that Ford's PHEVs suffer ... but needless to say, after seeing that I was only getting between 3.6 and 4.0 kwh out of a full battery (depending on the temperature), I knew something wasn't right. My first charge from empty was only about 3 hours 30 minutes, although it's been running closer to 3:50-4:00 now that the car's been used for a week. After reading through these forums, I realized that Ford doesn't stand behind its products, and that I'm basically up a creek without a paddle on this one. This knocks me down from an all-electric commute to work with partial electric going home to a 3/4 electric 1/4 gas commute to work with all gas going home.

 

Also already the cabin coolant heater has been sporadically faulting out, and neither Ford (since it's slightly out of warranty) nor the dealer who sold it want to step up. So disappointed. Wish I hadn't bought a Ford, and I will never make that mistake again.

 

Now that I've been educated, I will never buy another electric vehicle that doesn't have a liquid cooled battery (and critically, a liquid cooled battery with a heat exchanger to the A/C system). I so wish I'd paid the extra money to get a Volt :(.

 

To add insult to injury, I asked my employer about using the plugs in the parking lot to charge (which would have alleviated the capacity loss problem*), and I got the response "Those are for fleet vehicles only. Until [name of megacorp that I work for] subsidizes fossil fuel vehicles, electric vehicle drivers can buy their own electric." Nobody actually ever bothers to plug in the fleet cars, though, so those plugs just go unused. The real irony here is that at the corporate level, they have had an eco-friendly brand push going for over a decade, they have shifted the entire corporate fleet to Volts, and until recently they were a major manufacturer of EVSEs.

 

* Yes, I realize that twice-daily charging is 'bad', but according to Forscan my battery never gets over 75-80 basically no matter what I do, because it's 32 degrees outside right now ... so for the winter at least, it'd probably be OK.


Edited by danjayh, 19 November 2018 - 08:23 PM.

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#29 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 07:03 AM

:( I bought a 2015 Fusion Energi with 40k on it last week, and it's been pretty disappointing. Until I started driving it I had no idea about the thermal management & related capacity loss issues that Ford's PHEVs suffer ... but needless to say, after seeing that I was only getting between 3.6 and 4.0 kwh out of a full battery (depending on the temperature), I knew something wasn't right. My first charge from empty was only about 3 hours 30 minutes, although it's been running closer to 3:50-4:00 now that the car's been used for a week. After reading through these forums, I realized that Ford doesn't stand behind its products, and that I'm basically up a creek without a paddle on this one. This knocks me down from an all-electric commute to work with partial electric going home to a 3/4 electric 1/4 gas commute to work with all gas going home.

 

Also already the cabin coolant heater has been sporadically faulting out, and neither Ford (since it's slightly out of warranty) nor the dealer who sold it want to step up. So disappointed. Wish I hadn't bought a Ford, and I will never make that mistake again.

 

Now that I've been educated, I will never buy another electric vehicle that doesn't have a liquid cooled battery (and critically, a liquid cooled battery with a heat exchanger to the A/C system). I so wish I'd paid the extra money to get a Volt :(.

 

To add insult to injury, I asked my employer about using the plugs in the parking lot to charge (which would have alleviated the capacity loss problem*), and I got the response "Those are for fleet vehicles only. Until [name of megacorp that I work for] subsidizes fossil fuel vehicles, electric vehicle drivers can buy their own electric." Nobody actually ever bothers to plug in the fleet cars, though, so those plugs just go unused. The real irony here is that at the corporate level, they have had an eco-friendly brand push going for over a decade, they have shifted the entire corporate fleet to Volts, and until recently they were a major manufacturer of EVSEs.

 

* Yes, I realize that twice-daily charging is 'bad', but according to Forscan my battery never gets over 75-80 basically no matter what I do, because it's 32 degrees outside right now ... so for the winter at least, it'd probably be OK.

 

Regarding the coolant heater faulting out...that happened with my 2015 as well. In my case the heater had to be replaced.


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