Going to check out a used '17 Ti - what should I look out for?

[4cylinder]

I currently drive a '13 FFH and know the car fairly well but am not familiar with Energi-specific stuff. I love the car but I also want to get newer safety tech, and new Energis seem like the natural upgrade. This Friday I am going to test drive a fully loaded '17 Energi Titanium. The car has 23 months of factory warranty left, 7800 miles on the odometer, and lists for $23k. It was formerly registered as a corporate fleet car, and had an original build date of October 26, 2016.

 

Having tolerated MyFord Touch, I'm not too concerned about bugs with the infotainment, if any (these things tend to inflate the number of "problems" on JD Power and Consumer Reports). What concerns me is mechanical and electrical reliability. My '13 Fusion Hybrid has been rock solid despite being a Job 1 early build made in July 2012 (knock on wood), and I wish for any replacement to be equally reliable. While I did have a few issues with my '13 fixed under warranty (GPS losing its offset, parts of the interior trim peeling, left turn signal cancelling too quickly), I never had anything that stranded me or made the car undriveable. 

 

Looking at the forums here, it seems like an issue of particular concern is the health of the 12V battery. I drive 10 miles to work each way on a daily basis, so I'm sure my normal usage will keep things fine, but now and then I may take a vacation and leave the car in my garage for 1-2 weeks. Certainly don't want to come back after a trip and not be able to start the car! 

 

I have emailed the dealer and discovered that at 5400 miles, the 12V battery died and the "BEV/energi telematics control unit" was replaced then. Going by my research on this forum, it seems like the dealer did the right thing here. It was thus far the only warranty repair ever made.

 

I've also noticed that some 2017 Fusions (including gasoline models) had an issue with the ACM (audio control module) sucking power from the battery when the car was supposed to be turned off. So far I have no info on whether or not this affects the used '17 I intend to test drive, but I'll bring it up in another email to the dealer. 

 

I'd appreciate any pointers on what other potential issues to look out for and what questions to ask the dealer, so that I can be sure that if I do drop the cash, I'll be driving off with a problem-free car. For example, if someone here has encountered an issue documented in a TSB that is easily reproducible, please state it here so I can check when I do the test drive.

 

Thanks in advance! Here is my checklist on what to inspect before making a decision (will update if you guys give me suggestions):

 

• Obvious check for cosmetic damage on the exterior
• Check interior trim for peeling
• See if Active Noise Cancellation works (would indicate whether or not the ACM is faulty I believe)
• Check mirrors, both seats, one-touch windows to ensure switches work
• Make sure BLIS responds properly when a car in an adjacent lane passes me during the test drive
• Try to find an opportunity to try lane keep and adaptive cruise
• Finish the test drive by testing the Active Park Assist
• Ask dealer to show the charge of the 12V battery if possible
• Make sure I get two key fobs, and that the metal keys are included in both and they actually open the door.

Edited November 7, 2017 at 04:47 PM by 4cylinder

[murphy]

The Energi 12 volt battery is in the trunk on the left side behind an access door.  There are jump terminals under the hood.  In the event of a dead 12 volt battery and a locked car you would open your key fob and remove the metal key.  Remove the access cover on the driver's door handle and use the key to unlock the car.  Pop the hood and connect a battery charger or another battery to the jump terminals under the hood and the car can be started.

 

There should not be a problem driving the car every day.  If left in the garage for two weeks the battery will likely be discharged.  I connect a "smart" battery charger to the jump terminals under the hood to maintain the 12 volt battery when the car is not being used on a daily basis.  Plugging the EVSE in for those two weeks will NOT keep the 12 volt battery charged.

 

On a used car make sure that you get two key fobs and that both of them have the metal key inside and that the metal key works on that car.  Note that opening the car with the metal key will set off the alarm so be ready to cancel the alarm by starting the car.

Edited November 7, 2017 at 11:58 AM by murphy
More info

[4cylinder]

The Energi 12 volt battery is in the trunk on the left side behind an access door.  There are jump terminals under the hood.  In the event of a dead 12 volt battery and a locked car you would open your key fob and remove the metal key.  Remove the access cover on the driver's door handle and use the key to unlock the car.  Pop the hood and connect a battery charger or another battery to the jump terminals under the hood and the car can be started.

 

There should not be a problem driving the car every day.  If left in the garage for two weeks the battery will likely be discharged.  I connect a "smart" battery charger to the jump terminals under the hood to maintain the 12 volt battery when the car is not being used on a daily basis.  Plugging the EVSE in for those two weeks will NOT keep the 12 volt battery charged.

 

On a used car make sure that you get two key fobs and that both of them have the metal key inside and that the metal key works on that car.  Note that opening the car with the metal key will set off the alarm so be ready to cancel the alarm by starting the car.

 

Thanks. Can you post a picture of your smart charger setup? What device do you use?

 

The 12V battery location is identical to that of the Hybrid (kinda annoying haha).

 

I do own two portable jumpers which double as portable phone chargers, so at least I'm all set should a dead battery incident occur in my garage. I normally get a ride from a friend or use Uber/Lyft when I go to the airport, so I won't have to worry about a dead battery stranding me at airports. 

[murphy]

I use an earlier version, that is no longer available, of this charger.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Schumacher-XC103-CA-Automatic-Battery-Charger/dp/B00ISKYBRM/ref=pd_sbs_263_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ARHHRNDPJYMSKWZ5KG7J

 

I just pop the hood, set the charger on top of the fan shroud, connect the clips to the jump points, and plug it in.

[4cylinder]

Thanks murphy, sounds simple enough. If I make the purchase, I'll be sure to get a smart battery charger off Amazon and hook it up whenever I go away for a vacation.

 

I have also been reading up on MyFord Mobile - something the Hybrid doesn't have. It looks like the constant pinging of the car's modem contributes to the higher than expected 12V battery drain when idle. If I opt not to bother with MyFord Mobile, would that help?

[murphy]

There is no constant pinging.  The problem is constantly checking on your car when you are away.  I have connected to my car after a few days of it "sleeping" and MFM says it was last updated two days ago but then it wakes it up and does an update.  I have measured the instantaneous current spike, when the car wakes up, at over 10 amps.

 

I am an electrical engineer so I don't expect you to do what I did but I removed the OEM wet cell lead acid battery and replaced it with an AGM deep cycle battery.   The charge level in the AGM battery still declines but an AGM battery maintains the voltage to a much lower SOC (state of charge) than a wet cell battery does.  I did that in December 2013 so it is almost 4 years and the battery is still working.

[4cylinder]

haha, I'm actually a software engineer myself - I did a few EE courses in college but only the minimum to meet graduation requirements (and didn't score too well in them LOL). Still, I consider myself to be at least somewhat capable with tools and circuits. I play with Arduinos and hand-build all my gaming PCs, and it looks like some of the work with these cars isn't any more complex than that. 

 

I did a search and found your previous posts on the AGM battery replacement, including the need to chop part of the battery tray. Looks like a mod worth exploring if I do buy the car. I'd probably wait at least a few months and see how well the stock 12V lasts though.

 

If I do set up MFM I probably wouldn't use it much if at all. My workplace doesn't have chargers and I'd only be charging the car right before bedtime in my garage using the included 120V charger (I rent my townhouse so I can't install a 240V), so the Go Times feature isn't particularly useful to me. That should help with minimizing the wake-up spikes.

[murphy]

A couple of years after I did that someone reported that they found an AGM battery that will fit without modifying the battery tray.  Unfortunately I didn't write down the specs of the battery so I can't tell you what it is.

 

GO times do not work well using the 120 volt EVSE.  There is only 1440 watts available versus the 3840 watts that are available with 240.

 

If the car is your daily driver there should not be a problem with the battery.  I am retired and the car sometimes only gets driven once a week.

[4cylinder]

Thanks. Do you still recommend hooking up a smart charger in preparation for a vacation of say 1-2 weeks if the car was daily-driven over 90% of the time?

 

Also belated congratulations on being retired haha. Another 30 years at least for me!

Edited November 7, 2017 at 06:37 PM by 4cylinder

[murphy]

Thanks. Do you still recommend hooking up a smart charger in preparation for a vacation of say 1-2 weeks if the car was daily-driven over 90% of the time?

 

 

Yes.  Daily driving keeps the battery charged.  Sitting for two weeks means the battery SOC is going to go down.  The problem is that wet cell lead acid batteries are not meant to ever get to a low SOC.  They are designed to provide a short burst of very high current and then be immediately recharged.  When they get completely discharged material flakes off of the plates.  The pile of debris builds at the bottom of the cell and when it touches the bottom of the plates it shorts out the cell.  That means a new battery is needed.

 

I prefer a smart charger because it can both charge the battery and maintain it.  The battery maintainers on the market work fine if the battery is charged.  Most can not recharge a low battery.  It's another case of you get what you pay for.

[4cylinder]

Thanks so much for your help Murphy. Fingers crossed that no one else snags the car before this Friday and that the test drive turns out well.

 

I do have a potential alternative in the form of a white '17 Hybrid Platinum going for $26k with 14k miles, but the Energi seems like a better deal, and it's in Shadow Black which I feel looks nicer. 

Edited November 7, 2017 at 10:48 PM by 4cylinder

[4cylinder]

Bought the car! Very happy with it and really enjoyed some real EV driving :)

[murphy]

Congratulations!

[PA-Bucktail]

Congratulations, I just bought a CPO 2017 Fusion Titanium Energi too.

It had 13,900 miles on it. Couldn’t turn down the cash price.